Here & Now

Evers Discusses Situation In State's Public Schools

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

NOW TO EDUCATION NEWS. GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER’S 2016 STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS LAST WINTER HAD SOME BRAGGING TO DO.

SCOTT WALKER:

THE GRADUATING CLASS OF 2015 HAD THE SECOND HIGHEST ACT SCORES IN THE COUNTRY. AND THANKS TO OUR EFFORTS TO PREPARE ALL STUDENTS FOR COLLEGE AND CAREER, THE CLASS OF 2016 WILL BE THE FIRST TO BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE THE ACT FREE OF CHARGE, HELPING OVERCOME FINANCIAL BARRIERS AND CLOSE ACHIEVEMENT GAPS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALL WISCONSIN STUDENTS WERE TESTED THIS PAST YEAR AND THE GOVERNOR’S BRAGGING RIGHTS SLIPPED A LITTLE ALONG WITH THOSE SCORES. WISCONSIN’S 2016 ACT SCORES WERE DOWN TWO POINTS FROM 2015, BUT SLIPPAGE TO 20.5 IN THAT OVERALL COMPOSITE SCORE ON THE COLLEGE READINESS TEST WASN’T ALL THAT UNEXPECTED BECAUSE MORE STUDENTS WERE TAKING IT. STILL, THE BREAK-OUT SCORES SPELL TROUBLE FOR WISCONSIN’S ACHIEVEMENT GAPS. WISCONSIN SUPERINTENDENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION, TONY EVERS, IS HERE TO TALK ABOUT IT AND THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

TONY EVERS:

THANKS FOR HAVING ME HERE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WELL, WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE WISCONSIN ACT COMPOSITE SCORE, WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION?

TONY EVERS:

AS EXPECTED. I MEAN, WHEN YOU GO FROM 70% KIDS TESTING TO 100%, HISTORY HAS SHOWN THAT, A LOT OF OTHER STATES HAVE DONE THAT. SO WE WEREN’T SURPRISED. BUT ACTUALLY THERE WAS A GOOD PART OF IT, AND MILWAUKEE IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT. THEY’VE BEEN DOING THIS WITH ALL THEIR KIDS FOR SEVERAL YEARS. EVERY YEAR THEY FIND MANY, MANY STUDENTS THAT TOOK THE TEST THAT SCORED WELL AND NEVER HAD INTENDED TO GO TO COLLEGE. SO THERE WAS THIS AHA THING GOING ON. THAT HAPPENED NOW STATEWIDE. THERE’S HUNDREDS OF KIDS THAT ACROSS THE STATE WOULD NOT HAVE TAKEN THE TEST, NOW ARE GOING TO BE GOING TO COLLEGE. SO THAT’S A GOOD THING.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

BUT THERE ARE SOME NUMBERS TO LOOK AT. 40% OF THE TEST TAKERS DID NOT REACH WHAT’S KNOWN AS A BENCHMARK FOR ENGLISH, AND REACHING THE BENCHMARK CUTOFF SCORES MEANS THEY COULD EXPECT TO GET A C GRADE OR BETTER IN SUBJECT IN COLLEGE. 59% DID NOT REACH THE BENCHMARK IN READING AND MATH. 63% DID NOT REACH THAT BENCHMARK IN SCIENCE. 75% DID NOT REACH BENCHMARKS IN ALL FOUR. SO THREE-QUARTERS OF WISCONSIN’S HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATES ARE NOT COLLEGE MATERIAL? IS THAT WHAT THAT SAYS?

TONY EVERS:

WELL, THAT’S ACT’S VIEW OF THE WORLD AND THAT’S PROBABLY THE ONLY BENCHMARK WE HAVE AT THIS TIME. WE’RE ACTUALLY LOOKING AT TRYING TO FIND A MORE ROBUST BENCHMARK, BECAUSE IN ACTUALITY — AND I’M NOT MAKING EXCUSES — WE CERTAINLY HAVE WAYS TO GO ON CLOSING THE ACHIEVEMENT GAP IN THIS STATE. BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS SOME OF — I MEAN, YOU CAN’T — HAVING A C IN A COURSE IN MADISON VERSUS A C IN A COURSE IN STEVENS POINT – THERE’S A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE. AND SO THERE’S MANY NUANCES HERE THAT I REALLY DON’T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THE ACT’S BENCHMARKING. BUT OVERALL DOES THAT CONCERN US? ABSOLUTELY. AND ACTUALLY CONSISTENT WITH WHAT PREVIOUS YEARS, WHEN NOT EVERYBODY TOOK THE TEST, EITHER.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO DOES THAT MEAN THAT COLLEGE IS TOO HARD FOR WISCONSIN GRADUATES OR THAT THEY ARE UNPREPARED?

TONY EVERS:

I THINK — I DON’T THINK COLLEGES ARE TOO HARD IN WISCONSIN, WISCONSIN SCHOOLS. BUT WE’RE WORKING WITH THEM TO FIND A CONSISTENT WAY TO MAKE THAT JUDGMENT. WE’VE LOOKED AT, FOR EXAMPLE, LOOKING AT STEVENS POINT VERSUS OSHKOSH. SIMILAR DEMOGRAPHICS AND THERE’S DIFFERENT EXPECTATIONS FOR THE KIDS GETTING IN THERE AND BEING REMEDIATED. SO IT’S REALLY HARD DATA TO SLICE AND DICE AND MAKE BROAD STATEMENTS ABOUT. BUT DO I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE AN ACHIEVEMENT GAP IN THIS STATE? ABSOLUTELY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

NOW, THE COMPOSITE SCORES FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS TAKING THIS TEST IN WISCONSIN, IT WAS JUST UNDER 16%. FOR WHITES, IT WAS 21.5%. ALSO JUST 4% OF BLACK STUDENTS MET ALL FOUR BENCHMARKS, WHERE AS 30% OF WHITES DID. SHOULD WISCONSIN BE SOUNDING THE ALARM ON THESE KINDS OF GAPS?

TONY EVERS:

OH, ABSOLUTELY, AND I SPENT SEVEN YEARS SOUNDING THAT ALARM. WE’VE GOT TO FIND BETTER WAYS TO REACH THOSE STUDENTS. I KNOW WE WORKED DELIBERATELY WITH MILWAUKEE PUBLIC SCHOOLS ON THIS ISSUE FOR SEVERAL YEARS. WE’RE MAKING SLOW BUT GRADUAL PROGRESS. BUT WE HAVE TO RAMP IT UP. THERE’S NO QUESTION. LOOK AT KIDS OF COLOR IN THIS STATE. THEY DON’T ACHIEVE AT THE SAME LEVEL. SO WE NEED TO FIND DIFFERENT INSTRUCTIONAL STRATEGIES AND, FRANKLY, I THINK WE NEED MORE TIME. WE NEED MORE TIME FOR KIDS THAT ARE STRUGGLING.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

MORE TIME —

TONY EVERS:

INSTRUCTIONAL TIME, WHETHER IT’S EXPANDING THE SCHOOL YEAR. WHETHER IT’S IDENTIFYING CERTAIN KIDS THAT ARE BEHIND. AND I’VE TALKED TO DR. DRIVER JUST RECENTLY ON THAT ISSUE AND WE HOPE TO HAVE SOME BUDGET PROPOSALS THAT WILL ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

HOW DO THESE LEARNING MEASUREMENTS, THE ACT AND OUR SCORES, COMPARE TO INTERNATIONAL COMPETITORS?

TONY EVERS:

WELL, CERTAINLY MOST PEOPLE HAVE IDENTIFIED THE FACT THAT WE LOOK AT PISA OR ANY OF THE OTHER INTERNATIONAL ONES. SOME OF THEM WE DO VERY WELL. SOME OF THEM LAG. FRANKLY, YES, DO I WANT TO COMPARE OURSELVES INTERNATIONALLY? ABSOLUTELY. BUT I THINK LOOKING AT IT FROM OUR NATION’S AND OUR STATE’S ISSUES IS WHERE WE NEED TO START.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

YOU HAVE BIG CONCERNS ABOUT A TEACHER SHORTAGE IN WISCONSIN. HOW BAD IS THAT?

TONY EVERS:

I THINK WE’RE RIGHT ON THE CUSP OF BEING A DISASTER TO BE HONEST WITH YOU. UW-MADISON IS WORKING WITH US ON DEVELOPING SOME INFORMATION THAT WE CAN TALK SPECIFICALLY ABOUT DATA. BUT THE NUMBERS OF YOUNG PEOPLE GOING INTO OUR SCHOOLS OF EDUCATION HAVE DECLINED DRAMATICALLY OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS. AND RURAL SCHOOLS ARE HAVING DIFFICULT TIMES FINDING 2nd GRADE TEACHERS. IT’S NOT JUST SHORTAGES IN SPECIAL ED AND CAREER AND TECHNICAL EDUCATION. SO IT CAN’T BECOME A STATE OF HAVES AND HAVE-NOTS. I HAVE GRANDKIDS. ALL FIVE OF THEM ARE GOING TO PUBLIC SCHOOLS NOW. TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THE HIGHEST QUALITY TEACHER POSSIBLE. THAT’S NOT THE CASE ACROSS THE STATE OF WISCONSIN NOW.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND YOU WANT TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR SOME TEACHERS TO GET INTO THE CLASSROOM?

TONY EVERS:

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE MAINTAIN HIGH QUALITY, BUT WE WANT TO ELIMINATE ANY BARRIERS THAT MAY BE IRRATIONAL BARRIERS, BUREAUCRATIC BARRIERS TO HAVE PEOPLE GET IN THE CLASSROOM. WE’RE STARTING TO NETWORK WITH SOME EMERGENCY RULES. THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN THE HIGH QUALITY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALL RIGHT. TONY EVERS, THANKS VERY MUCH.

TONY EVERS:

YOU BET.