Here & Now

Charlie Sykes On 'Never Trump,' Prospects For GOP Candidates

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

NOW TO POLITICS AND DONALD TRUMP’S SUPER TUESDAY. TRUMP SWEPT FIVE FOR FIVE NORTHEAST STATES WITH BIG MARGINS THIS WEEK. HIS TED CRUZ-JOHN KASICH BEAT-DOWN CAUSED MANY IN THE POLITICAL PRESS TO WONDER WHAT HAPPENED TO THE “STOP TRUMP” MOVEMENT. THE SAME MOVEMENT THAT PARTLY EXPLAINED HOW TRUMP WAS STOPPED IN HIS TRACKS IN WISCONSIN. WE THOUGHT WE WOULD ASK THE LEADER OF THE “STOP TRUMP” EFFORT IN WISCONSIN, WTMJ RADIO TALK SHOW HOST CHARLIE SYKES. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

CHARLIE SYKES:

MY PLEASURE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO WHAT DID HAPPEN TO THE “STOP TRUMP” MOVEMENT AFTER THAT TRAIN LEFT WISCONSIN?

CHARLIE SYKES:

WELL, WE DID OUR JOB HERE IN WISCONSIN. WE WERE THE FIREWALL OF COMMON SENSE AND DECENCY. AND I THOUGHT WE HAD PROVIDED THE REST OF THE COUNTRY WITH A BLUEPRINT FOR HOW TO STOP DONALD TRUMP. WE PROVED THAT HE IN FACT COULD BE BEATEN THAT IN FACT IF YOU COALESCE BEHIND A CREDIBLE ALTERNATIVE. AND FOR REASONS THAT WE COULD ALL SPECULATE ABOUT, THEY KIND OF SQUANDERED THAT MOMENTUM. THEY WENT UP INTO AN AREA WHERE I DON’T THINK TED CRUZ WAS PARTICULARLY POPULAR. I DON’T THINK THEY SPENT MONEY. I DON’T THINK THEY WERE ABLE TO COALESCE. WE’LL HAVE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS ON TUESDAY IN INDIANA.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

APPARENTLY OTHER STATES DON’T HAVE THE POWER OF CONSERVATIVE TALK RADIO WITH YOU AS ITS DEAN HELPING PERSUADE VOTERS?

CHARLIE SYKES:

WELL, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE CREDIT FOR THAT, BUT YEAH. WE ARE UNUSUAL HERE IN WISCONSIN. WE HAVE AN UNUSUALLY ENGAGED ELECTORATE, UNUSUALLY INFORMED ELECTORATE. WE HAVE A CONSERVATIVE INFRASTRUCTURE. I MEAN, THINK ABOUT BASICALLY WHAT PEOPLE HAVE GONE THROUGH HERE IN WISCONSIN OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS. HOW MANY ELECTIONS WE’VE HAD, HOW MANY CAMPAIGNS. WE HAVE THINK TANKS. WE HAVE FOUNDATIONS. WE HAVE ORGANIZATIONS AND PUBLICATIONS THAT DEAL WITH THESE ISSUES. AND FOR WHATEVER REASON, WE HAVE A RELATIVELY ROBUST TALK RADIO UNIVERSE AND ALL SIX HOSTS OF THE MAJOR TALK SHOW HOST HERE WERE QUITE ANTI-TRUMP. I’VE TRIED TO DETERMINE WHAT THE SITUATION IS IN OTHER STATES. APPARENTLY THAT DOESN’T REALLY EXIST. AND AS A RESULT, WHAT YOU HAVE IS A LOT OF THE NATIONAL GUYS, WHO HAVE BECOME THE FAN BOYS FOR DONALD TRUMP, PROVIDING AIR COVER FOR HIM, NOT CHALLENGING HIM AND GIVING HIM WALL TO WALL COVERAGE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO DO YOU LET UP NOW THAT DONALD TRUMP IS SWEEPING PRIMARIES WITH MORE THAN 50% MARGINS?

CHARLIE SYKES:

WELL, HE HAS SWEPT SOME PRIMARIES WITH A 50% MARGIN. WE’RE TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THESE EASTERN STATES THAT ARE HEAVILY DEMOCRATIC, VERY LOW VOTE TURNOUT. I THINK EVERYTHING RIDES ON WHAT HAPPENS ON TUESDAY. IN INDIANA, IF DONALD TRUMP WINS ON TUESDAY, I THINK THE NOMINATION FIGHT IS OVER. NOW, I’M NOT STOP TRUMP. I’M NEVER TRUMP. AND BY NEVER TRUMP, I MEAN NEVER TRUMP. BUT I’M ALSO NOT DELUSIONAL. HE WILL BE THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE ON TUESDAY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN NEVER TRUMP EVEN THOUGH HE’S THE NOMINEE, POTENTIALLY, PROBABLY?

CHARLIE SYKES:

IT MEANS THAT I AM NEVER GOING TO VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP. I’M NEVER GOING TO SUPPORT DONALD TRUMP. DONALD TRUMP DOES NOT REPRESENT ANY OF THE VALUES THAT I WANT TO SEE REPRESENTED EITHER BY CONSERVATIVES. HE DOESN’T REPRESENT SOMEBODY THAT I THINK IS FIT OR SUITED TO BE IN THE WHITE HOUSE. AND AS A RESULT I’M GOING TO BE A MAN WITHOUT A CANDIDATE. A MAN WITHOUT A FLAG.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

AND SO ARE YOU GOING TO BEAT THAT DRUM AS WELL, MOVING TOWARD THE GENERAL ELECTION?

CHARLIE SYKES:

WELL, YEAH. NOW, OF COURSE, THE FLIP SIDE IS THAT IF TED CRUZ CAN WIN IN FLORIDA, IF THE CARLY FIORINA HAIL MARY PASS ACTUALLY DOES MOVE THE NEEDLE. IF MIKE PENCE REALATIVELY WEAK ENDORSEMENT DOES MOVE THE NEEDEL, THEN I THINK THAT GOING FORWARD YOU’RE STILL GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF DEBATE AND DISCUSSION AND THEN YOU GO INTO CLEVELAND AND IT’S GOING TO BE AN OPEN CONVENTION.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHY DO YOU CALL THE GOVERNOR OF INDIANA’S ENDORSEMENT WEAK?

CHARLIE SYKES:

WELL, HE DIDN’T REALLY ENDORSE. HE ACTUALLY JUST SAID I’M GOING TO VOTE FOR TED CRUZ. THE CONTRAST BETWEEN HIS SORT OF QUASI NON-ENDORSEMENT AND THE FULL-THROATED ENDORSEMENT BY SCOTT WALKER WAS PRETTY DRAMATIC. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED IN WISCONSIN IS THAT YOU DID HAVE ALL OF THE POWERS THAT BE LINE UP BEHIND TED CRUZ. WHEN SCOTT WALKER CAME OUT, HE SENT A SIGNAL TO A LOT OF REPUBLICANS AND CONSERVATIVES PARTICULARLY IN SOUTHEAST WISCONSIN THAT IT WAS OKAY TO DO THAT. AND THEN HE CAMPAIGNED VIGOROUSLY, YOU KNOW, FOR TED CRUZ. AND THEN WHEN DONALD TRUMP ATTACKED SCOTT WALKER, I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE TURNING POINTS OF THE CAMPAIGN. AND MIKE PENCE JUST SORT OF WAS THROWING COTTON BALLS UP AGAINST THE WALL.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF CARLY FIORINA AS A RUNNING MATE HERE?

CHARLIE SYKES:

I LIKE CARLY FIORINA. I THINK THAT SHE IS — SHE’S A VERY, VERY FORMIDABLE — SHE’S A VERY FORMIDABLE SURROGATE. I ALWAYS LIKED HER IN THE CAMPAIGN. SHE DIDN’T PUT TOGETHER A VERY EFFECTIVE CAMPAIGN ON HER OWN BEHALF. BUT WHEN SHE WAS HERE IN WISCONSIN, I HAD A CHANCE TO INTRODUCE HER AT THE RALLY THE NIGHT BEFORE THE PRIMARY IN WAUKESHA AND SHE WAS A ROCK STAR. I THINK SHE COMPLEMENTS TED CRUZ. I THINK SHE HUMANIZES TED CRUZ. I THINK SHE IS GOING AFTER DONALD TRUMP’S BIGGEST WEAK SPOT, WHICH IS HIS INABILITY TO HANDLE SMART, INTELLIGENT, ACCOMPLISHED WOMEN. BUT I AM CONCERNED THAT IT’S TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE. THAT THEY WAITED TOO LONG AND IT KIND OF HAS THAT FEELING OF DESPERATION.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

WELL, WE’LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS TUESDAY. CHARLIE SYKES, THANKS VERY MUCH.

CHARLIE SYKES:

THANK YOU.