Here & Now

Brian Juchems Responds To State Lawsuit On LGBTQ Bathrooms

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

TESTIMONY IN ANOTHER FEDERAL COURT CHALLENGE OVER WISCONSIN’S VOTER ID LAW AND OTHER ELECTION CHANGES ALSO WRAPPED UP THIS WEEK IN MADISON. TWO LIBERAL GROUPS SUED OVER THE LAWS ENACTED BY REPUBLICANS IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS. U.S. DISTRICT JUDGE JAMES PETERSON EXPECTS TO MAKE A RULING BY THE END OF JULY. PETERSON SAID AT THE CULMINATION OF TESTIMONY THAT REGARDLESS OF THE VERDICT, THERE WILL BE NO CHANGES TO WISCONSIN VOTING LAWS BEFORE THE AUGUST 9 PRIMARY. PRIMARIES WILL BE HELD IN CONGRESSIONAL AND LEGISLATIVE RACES. NOW TO MORE LEGAL DISPUTES AND AN ANNOUNCEMENT THIS WEEK BY THE STATE ATTORNEY GENERAL. BRAD SCHIMEL JOINED TEN OTHER STATES IN A CHALLENGE TO THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION’S NEW POLICY REGARDING BATHROOMS FOR TRANSGENDER PEOPLE. THE TITLE IX POLICY LETS PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENTS USE THE BATHROOM THAT MATCHES THEIR GENDER IDENTITIES. ATTORNEY GENERAL SCHIMEL CALLS THIS AN UNLAWFUL POWER GRAB UNDERMINING WISCONSIN’S SOVEREIGNTY AND INDEPENDENCE. BRAD SCHIMEL IS OUT OF THE COUNTRY AND NOT AVAILABLE FOR AN INTERVIEW ON THIS TOPIC. TONIGHT WE HEAR FROM BRIAN JUCHEMS FROM G-SAFE, A MADISON-BASED ORGANIZATION WITH STATEWIDE MEMBERSHIP WHICH ADVOCATES FOR LGBTQ YOUTH. AND BRIAN THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

BRIAN JUCHEMS:

THANKS. IT’S GREAT TO BE HERE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

SO IT WAS JUST EARLIER THIS MONTH THAT YOUR ORGANIZATION WAS APPLAUDING THE FEDERAL GUIDANCE ON BATHROOM USE FOR TRANSGENDER PEOPLE AND NOW WISCONSIN HAS JOINED ON TO AN 11-STATE CHALLENGE OF IT. WHAT’S YOUR REACTION TO THIS MOVE ON THE PART OF WISCONSIN?

BRIAN JUCHEMS:

SURE. WELL, OF COURSE WE’RE DISAPPOINTED AS QUITE FRANKLY EMBARRASSED, THAT OUR STATE IS JOINING THIS LAWSUIT INSTEAD OF SPENDING TIME ON FIGURING OUT HOW TO SUPPORT TRANSGENDER AND GENDER NON-CONFORMING STUDENTS. OUR ATTORNEY GENERAL AND OUR GOVERNOR HAVE DECIDED TO INVEST TIME IN CHALLENGING THAT STUDENT POPULATION. SO WE’RE DEFINITELY DISAPPOINTED. ALTHOUGH, TO BE FAIR, WE’RE ALSO NOT SURPRISED.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

A.G. SCHIMEL SAYS THAT THE NEW FEDERAL GUIDANCE CONFLICTS WITH WISCONSIN LAW, WHICH PROHIBITS DISCRIMINATION BASED ON SEX IN THE EDUCATION SETTING. WHAT ABOUT THAT ARGUMENT?

BRIAN JUCHEMS:

YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT, WELL, ONE, JUST TO REMEMBER THAT THE GUIDANCE THAT WAS PUT OUT BY THE DOJ AND THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, IT’S SIGNIFICANT GUIDANCE. IT’S NOT LAW. AND THEN TWO IS ALSO TO REMEMBER THAT, YOU KNOW, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, YOU KNOW, IT’S CONNECTED TO TITLE IX FUNDING AND THAT THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO PUT STIPULATIONS ON FUNDING. STATES COULD DECIDE WE DON’T LIKE THIS GUIDANCE, SO WE’RE GOING TO GO WITHOUT THAT FUNDING, WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE PRACTICAL FOR SOME. BUT AS FAR AS WHETHER OR NOT IT’S CONFLICTING WITH WISCONSIN LAW, WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT LOWER COURTS AS WELL AS THE 4TH CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS HAVE RULED THAT TITLE IX DOES PROHIBIT DISCRIMINATION AGAINST TRANSGENDER PEOPLE AND LINK IT TO SEX DISCRIMINATION. SO I DON’T FEEL LIKE IT’S VIOLATING. I THINK IT’S SIMPLY FOLLOWING WHAT OTHER COURTS IN OTHER STATES HAVE BEEN DOING FOR QUITE SOME TIME, LONG BEFORE THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION STEPPED IN.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

NOW, YOU WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT TITLE IX FUNDS. I UNDERSTAND THAT WISCONSIN USED ABOUT $800 MILLION IN FEDERAL FUNDS TO UPHOLD TITLE IX PROVISIONS. DO YOU THINK THAT THAT MONEY IN WISCONSIN COULD BE IN JEOPARDY?

BRIAN JUCHEMS:

I WOULD THINK — I MEAN, ANYTHING’S POSSIBLE. I WOULD THINK THAT AND I WOULD HOPE THAT ATTORNEY GENERAL SCHIMEL AS WELL AS GOVERNOR WALKER WOULD RECOGNIZE THAT THERE’S ALREADY MANY SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN WISCONSIN THAT ARE ALREADY PROVIDING ACCOMMODATIONS FOR TRANSGENDER STUDENTS OR ARE ENGAGING IN PRACTICES THAT ARE VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION PUT OUT. SO THERE’S ALREADY MANY SCHOOL DISTRICTS THAT ARE DOING WHAT THAT GUIDANCE ALREADY SAYS. IN MANY WAYS MANY SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN WISCONSIN ARE ALREADY WELL AHEAD OF THIS GUIDANCE.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

IN FACT, I THINK YOU GAVE US THE NUMBER THAT AT LEAST 80 DISTRICTS ALREADY HAVE SPECIFIC PROVISIONS FOR TRANSGENDER BATHROOMS.

BRIAN JUCHEMS:

SO A LITTLE CLARITY ON THAT. SO WE DO HAVE 80 SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN WISCONSIN THAT HAVE SOME FORM OF NONDISCRIMINATION PROTECTIONS FOR TRANSGENDER STUDENTS.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

OKAY.

BRIAN JUCHEMS:

SO, IN OTHER WORDS, THEY HAVE A POLICY THAT SAYS WE’RE NOT GOING TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST EITHER TRANSGENDER STUDENTS OR STUDENTS ON THE BASIS OF GENDER IDENTITY AND GENDER EXPRESSION. MANY OF THOSE SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN THE ABSENCE OF CLEAR GUIDANCE ARE ALREADY FOLLOWING A LOT OF THOSE GUIDELINES, BUT THEY MIGHT NOT BE DOING THAT CONSISTENTLY. WE HAVE A LITTLE OVER A HANDFUL OF SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN WISCONSIN THAT HAVE CREATED REALLY CLEAR GUIDELINES SIMILAR TO WHAT THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION PUT OUT.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

HOW BIG IS THE NEED FOR SUCH PROTECTIONS FOR TRANSGENDER STUDENTS? ARE THERE MORE TRANSGENDER OR ARE WE JUST MORE ACCEPTING OF THESE PEOPLE?

BRIAN JUCHEMS:

NATIONAL STUDIES ON THE NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER STUDENTS, THOSE ARE STILL HARD TO FIND. HERE IN WISCONSIN, THE DANE COUNTY YOUTH ASSESSMENT, WHICH HAPPENS EVERY THREE YEARS, FOR THE LAST TWO CYCLES HAVE FOUND THAT ABOUT 1.5% OF DANE COUNTY HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS IDENTIFY AS TRANSGENDER. I DO FEEL LIKE WE’RE AT A POINT WHERE PEOPLE ARE MORE AWARE AND I DO FEEL LIKE PARENTS ARE MORE AWARE AND PAYING ATTENTION TO THEIR CHILDREN IN A WAY THAT WE DIDN’T A COUPLE GENERATIONS AGO OR EVEN A GENERATION AGO.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

ALL RIGHT. WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.

BRIAN JUCHEMS:

OKAY.

FREDERICA FREYBERG:

BRIAN JUCHEMS, THANKS VERY MUCH.

BRIAN JUCHEMS:

AWESOME. THANK YOU.