Here & Now

Here & Now for June 9, 2017

Zac Schultz:

Good evening. I’m Zac Schultz filling in for Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on Here & Now, in our First Look segment, the latest on the budget battle at the state capitol. After that, new job numbers out from our colleagues at Wisconsin Public Radio. Then a Closer Look at broadband expansion in rural Wisconsin. It’s Here & Now for June 9th.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided in part by Friends of Wisconsin Public Television.

Zac Schultz:

In our First Look tonight state budget talks at the capitol have stalled for the moment with Republicans from the Assembly and Senate arguing over how much money to spend on public education and transportation. Meanwhile Governor Walker continues to travel the state holding media events at schools and at the site of major highway projects. He was outside Madison on Monday along the Verona Road construction site. The governor has threatened to veto the budget if Republicans in the legislature don’t uphold his pledge to keep property taxes lower than they were in 2010.

Scott Walker:

I learned from people like Tommy Thompson is don’t let up. You’ve got a bully pulpit as governor. Use it to stake out your priorities. For us, our priorities are putting more money, more actual dollars in K-12 than ever before. It’s continuing tax relief, particularly property tax relief so that property taxes in ’18 are lower not only than they were in 2010 but lower than they were in 2014.

Zac Schultz:

Just this week Assembly Republicans released their education budget package. Joining us now to talk about the budget is Representative John Nygren, co-chair of the Joint Finance Committee. Thanks for your time today.

John Nygren:

Thanks for having me.

Zac Schultz:

So you’ve been touring the state in support of this most recent proposal. The Senate Republicans and Governor Walker were a little hesitant at first. How has the reception taken hold?

John Nygren:

I think the more recent comments have been that they are beginning to accept that this is a real problem and that it’s something we should look at. I would so far say that that’s s a success. That we’re at least talking about these low revenue districts that have been a problem since 1993 when the funding formula was established. Some originally said, “Let’s solve this problem when we have more revenues.” I would say, “Well, we’ve got a billion dollar more revenue in this budget. We’ve got over $600 million in investment in education in the budget. If we can’t do it now, I'm not sure ever we can.

Zac Schultz:

We’ve seen the governor touring the state promoting his version of the budget. Now we’re seeing Assembly Republicans touring the state promoting theirs. Is that a good thing to have both sides of these elements out there like this?

John Nygren:

I actually think so. I’ve been criticized by some of my Senate colleagues for doing this. However I would say putting your ideas out there and then taking them to the public and getting their input is probably a better solutions than actually the two of us staring at each other across the table and negotiating over whose position is better. Let’s get the input from the public as well, not just each other.

Zac Schultz:

This is interesting because traditionally these budgets elements were negotiated behind closed doors, among the majority party. And then they would come out and say, “Here’s what we’re passing.” Did you like this version? Because even though it looks a little more contentious, people were talking about budget stalemates?

John Nygren:

I wouldn’t say one is better at getting the job done. But I do think from a transparency standpoint, this is better. The ironic thing, this probably wouldn’t have been necessary if Senator Fitzgerald wouldn’t have necessarily sent out a press release four minutes before we were releasing our package saying, “It was dead on arrival.” I think that necessitated our taking this to the people and getting some input.

Zac Schultz:

So is this budget at a stalemate or how would you describe where we are?

John Nygren:

This is my third budget as co-chair, fourth that I’ve sat on the committee. There’s always been hiccups as you get towards the end where there’s differences of opinion. I think that’s actually good. Especially in a situation where one party controls all three levers. The governor, we shouldn’t just rubber stamp the governor’s budget. Let’s put out different ideas, get public input. At the end of the day, I think the taxpayers and in this case the students of the state of Wisconsin, they win.

Zac Schultz:

Do you need education before transportation? Are they going to come at the same time?

John Nygren:

I don’t know that they’re necessarily connected but I think you need to deal with education before we deal with property taxes and other taxes because of the, obviously the impact and the governor’s pledge on property taxes. So I think education, we’re at the right time and the right place to take it up.

Zac Schultz:

The governor has been pretty insistent on his property tax pledge. Is it right to hold up a budget on a pledge, a political campaign promise?

John Nygren:

Hey, that’s what gets political people elected, right, is standing up for what they believe in. So I’m not necessarily sure that’s a bad thing. I would rather talk about whether the pledge and actually the fiscal decisions that are revolving around that pledge make sense. The fact that we’re actually buying down property taxes in these referendums that are taking place throughout the state is something we should discuss publicly and get public input from. The fact that we’re actually–as my home grows in value over the year between 2010 and now, should taxpayers be buying down that growth, that natural growth in value. I think that’s more than reasonable to have those discussions.

Zac Schultz:

The Legislative Fiscal Bureau just put out a paper about transportation options for ways to bring in more revenue. Are you attached to any of those options including raising the sales tax on gas or raising the gas tax itself?

John Nygren:

I think this is obviously been one of the probably most contentious issue we faced over the last couple sessions. Going back three budgets ago, the governor had put out a task force to come back with some recommendations on things we could look at to deal with the transportation funding. Coming right out of a recession that was not the time to deal with it. Last budget we were in a position where the Assembly Republicans were trying. Let’s bring this up. Let’s get a solution here. Didn’t happen. Here we are three budgets later and we believe now is the time to address this. We can’t continue to rely on bonding without a revenue resource to reduce that overall debt long term.

Zac Schultz:

Both Speaker Vos and Senator Fitzgerald have talked about the size of these historic caucuses and the factions within them. Are they too large to bring in line on these issues?

John Nygren:

I can tell you from our standpoint, we discuss our education package. There are some, this is the type of decision that requires statesmanship, not necessarily politics because there are some that might fare better under the governor’s plan than under this plan. And yet they’re still willing to stand up and say, “This is the right thing to do to make our education system level and comparable throughout the state and provide opportunity for all.” We’re having those conversations in our caucus. I can’t speak for the Senate but we’re having them and they’re actually, of course, not unanimous, but they’re actually good debates.

Zac Schultz:

Do you expect to meeting in Joint Finance next week?

John Nygren:

We hope to be meeting this week. Senator Darling and myself spoke a couple days ago. I called her on my way here. We had talked about being in this week Tuesday. Wednesday we’re in session in the Assembly. So we’re looking at later in the week. We hope to be able to take up the group insurance board, ETF and also compensation.

Zac Schultz:

Will things fall in place once you get back together?

John Nygren:

I think so. Like I said, this typically happens where there’s disagreement. And once you sit down and come up with something–you know what? It’s going to take compromise probably on the Senate side, on the Assembly side, on the governor’s side. We get everybody in the room and discuss what our differences. I think we have more in common than we realize. Once we come up with those agreements, I think things will flow pretty quickly.

Zac Schultz:

Representative John Nygren, thank you for coming.

John Nygren:

Thank you.

Zac Schultz:

We wanted to hear from the Republican Senate Majority Leader Scott Fitzgerald but he was unavailable. He did put out a statement this week saying, “The state Senate remains committed to fully funding K-12 education as Governor Walker proposed.” Adding, “The Assembly education proposal was quote simple not the direction that this budget is headed.” So where is it headed? And will the Democrats in the legislature have some part to play? For that, we turn to Representative Gordon Hintz, a member of the Joint Finance Committee who joins us from Oshkosh. Thanks for your time today.

Gordon Hintz:

Happy to be here.

Zac Schultz:

Now when it comes to education funding, do you prefer the governor’s plan or the Assembly Republican’s most recent proposal?

Gordon Hintz:

Well I think the odd thing is that there’s a disagreement about education at all. We’ve heard a lot of platitudes about the fact that funding our public schools is a priority. If that’s the case, then we should be making the investments that our schools need and other things should be secondary. I think right now, the governor’s pounding away at wanting to maintain a campaign soundbite regarding property tax limits. And then we’re getting last minute plan by the Assembly Republicans which I think is sort of complicating the mix. This is something that shouldn’t be that complicated. I think the Assembly Republican plan acknowledges the fact that we have 148 local school districts that raised their own property taxes to make up for school cuts. But I can’t say I know where it’s going to end up. But if we start with education being a priority, it shouldn’t be that difficult.

Zac Schultz:

Now have Democrats been included in any of these conversation or are you just finding out from the press releases?

Gordon Hintz:

Mostly finding out from the press releases. I did talk to a number of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle morning. And we heard from school district administrators. I think it’s important to point out even under the governor’s funding proposal, a number of school districts including Oshkosh, Neenah, North Fond du Lac, they’re still going to have to make budget cuts. So for as much as the governor’s beating his chest about how much money he’s putting into schools, it doesn’t address the shortfalls that exist from the cuts of the last six years.

Zac Schultz:

Now from your perspective, will this division between Republicans lead to a better budget over all? Is this actually a healthy debate?

Gordon Hintz:

I think that depends on whether we’re going to start with–let’s fund schools if that’s our number one priority and then let’s see what we have revenue left for. I think the problem is schools really aren’t the number one priority. I mean the governor says, “I want to maintain the levee on a house from 2010.” Instead of putting the dollars in the classroom and addressing what’s happening in schools throughout the state. Until that happens, I'm not sure. But I think we’re going to have to see.

Zac Schultz:

The governor has been traveling the state promoting his version of the budget. Just this week Assembly Republicans were out doing the same. Is that locking both sides into their positions or do you think public discussion can actually lead to persuasion on one part or the other?

Gordon Hintz:

Well I think Assembly Republicans are trying to address what I think they see there’s a certain number of districts who are low-spending that are increasingly having to go to local property taxpayers to make up for their shortfalls. I think they’re trying to address it in the formula. I’m not sure it has enough time to get the input from districts throughout the state to be passed. This is the fourth budget for Republican majority and Governor Walker. We’ve had modest revenue growth. We shouldn’t be in the position where we’re having this kind of disagreement. This shouldn’t be a difficult budget, yet I think we’re seeing the mismanagement of the state budget the last few years has put the state in the position it’s in.

Zac Schultz:

The most recent job numbers came out. Are those going to have any impact on the budget going forward?

Gordon Hintz:

Well, it should. I think what we’ve seen is, and that’s what I meant about mismanagement because of how many ineffective, expensive and regressive tax cuts the Republicans and Governor Walker have passed, we haven’t had the money to invest in our research institutions, the UW System, K-12 education. Those long term investments we know are going to be crucial to both our quality of life and to the jobs of tomorrow. The fact that Wisconsin continues to lag, we have seen wages drop, and we’ve lost manufacturing jobs certainly should be a red flag to all legislators to know that what we’ve done hasn’t been working and we need to change directions and reinvest in our state.

Zac Schultz:

Representative Hintz from Oshkosh. Thanks for your time today.

Gordon Hintz:

Thanks for having me.

Zac Schultz:

Speaking of job numbers, our colleagues at Wisconsin Public Radio have been crunching the latest in Wisconsin. They show job growth has slowed over the past year. WPR’s Shawn Johnson has done the deep dive reporting on this with graphics help from our partners at WisContext.org. Shawn joins us now. Thanks for your time.

Shawn Johnson:

Hey Zac.

Zac Schultz:

How bad are the numbers for Wisconsin?

Shawn Johnson:

What we have here, we already knew the numbers for Wisconsin for 2016. We knew it was a slow year for Wisconsin in terms of hiring. About 11,000 jobs, which is much lower than we’ve had recently. But what we found out with these numbers for 2016, this apples to apples comparison with other states is that other states slowed down too. Wisconsin did end up being 33rd in the nation in private sector growth in 2016. It’s about par for Wisconsin. It was 33rd last year. If you look back over the last six years, the growth over that entire span, Wisconsin has been 34th since Governor Scott Walker took office. So that’s right around where we have been almost all the time.

Zac Schultz:

These are the gold standard numbers, correct?

Shawn Johnson:

Right. They are the quarterly census of employment and wages which as the name suggests it’s basically a census of employers. An actual hard count of their employment data of 96% of employers. So they’re as good as they gets when it comes to measuring job growth. They give you that state to state comparison, a real good snapshot of where things stand.

Zac Schultz:

Wisconsin legislators love to compare themselves to Minnesota. We’ve got a chart that shows where we are. It looks like Minnesota’s catching up?

Shawn Johnson:

It’s significant because we still have more people than Minnesota, about 250,000 or so more people live in Wisconsin than Minnesota. As you see in those numbers, Minnesota is about ready to pass us in private sector job growth. It’s gaining pretty quick. Almost past in this report. They are growing faster than Wisconsin. Definitely. No doubt about it.

Zac Schultz:

Regionally, Wisconsin is where they have been. They’re ahead of a couple states but behind a couple by significant margins?

Shawn Johnson:

If you look across the whole region, Wisconsin again was 34th in private sector job growth over the six year span. It is behind states like Minnesota, Michigan, toward the bottom of the pack there.

Zac Schultz:

Is this reflecting a national trend? You said everyone was down about the same rate or is Wisconsin lagging behind the nation?

Shawn Johnson:

If you just look at 2015, when we added a lot more jobs than we did in 2016, we were 33rd both years. It is reflective of a national trend in that way. It’s definitely the case that other mid-western states are growing faster than us. The national economy is definitely growing faster than us, about 1.3% growth. While everybody is slowing down, what that means is, we’re still lagging behind. If you go to other industries like manufacturing, that trend continues.

Zac Schultz:

And manufacturing is critical because that’s what Governor Walker and the Republican have put a lot of money into tax credits for manufacturing. They’ve tried to say that this is the heart of Wisconsin. We have to have manufacturing and we are still losing jobs.

Shawn Johnson:

We are. We lost just under 4,000 jobs, manufacturing jobs in 2016. A bad year for us. That was the first year the new manufacturing tax credit was in place. The state was spending roughly $300 million a year on this tax credit to boost manufacturing at a time that the state lost manufacturing jobs so that’s a bad year for Wisconsin. However it was one of 28 states that lost manufacturing jobs in 2016. Not alone, although it does go to show the limited power of that tax credit.

Zac Schultz:

Governor Walker has been talking a lot about the unemployment rate. It’s the lowest since World War II is what he’s saying. How can we have such low unemployment and still no job growth at the same time. Are those opposed or are they completely apples and oranges?

Shawn Johnson:

They are measuring different things. The unemployment rate is measuring the percentage of–your friends and neighbors basically, people who live in Wisconsin who are actively looking for a job but don’t have it. There’s a small percentage of people who are actively looking for a job but don’t have it. If you are talking about job growth, growing that group of people who have jobs and growing that economy, that’s where Wisconsin lags. While we have low unemployment rate, the economy is not expanding like it is in other states.

Zac Schultz:

So in his first campaign, Governor Walker pledged to help create 250,000 jobs by the end of his first term. He’s nowhere close to that after the first term. Does he have a chance to catch it by the end of his second term?

Shawn Johnson:

Not if growth continues like it did in 2016. He fell, as you mentioned, well short in that first term. And that was a first term promise and a very explicit promise to help the state create 250,000 private sector jobs. We are, after 2016, that is about half way through the governor’s second term, about 70,000 jobs short. If the state picks up hiring and starts adding jobs the way it did earlier in the governor’s term, maybe that pledge is reachable in term two. If it continues on the trend that we saw in 2016, then no way.

Zac Schultz:

Shawn Johnson, thanks for your time.

Shawn Johnson:

You’re welcome.

Zac Schultz:

Now for a Closer Look at the challenge of getting strong reliable internet in all regions of the state. Good broadband is more than just the ability to stream video. For the state’s rural areas in particular, it can be a link to a better way of life, allowing people to work from home or start a business. But it also requires substantial government investment. An issue that has received rare bipartisan support. Andy Soth has this report from western Wisconsin.

Janice Quinton:

This is Janice with Interiors by J and L.

Andy Soth:

Janice Quinton has a short commute. It’s just down the basement stairs. But from her home in western Wisconsin, she’s in constant touch with her colleagues working in the Madison area. Window treatments are being hung in this new home. Work coordinated remotely by Quinton.

Janice Quinton:

We primarily do window coverings, whether it be commercial or residential. Some of the plans, I can get off of line and then I’m able to do, through the online services, do the quoting and bidding out of products to customers. I might just need to send you down the work order.

Andy Soth:

This wouldn’t be possible without the internet. Specifically a stable broadband link that keeps Quinton connected. The Quinton family moved to Pepin so Janice’s husband could take a job as school superintendent.

Janice Quinton:

Yeah, Pepin has been great for our family. The area is beautiful. The children have a lot of opportunities even through a small town.

Andy Soth:

But that beautiful landscape of the Mississippi Valley makes wiring for the internet a challenge. Something the Quintons didn’t consider when they moved.

Janice Quinton:

At the time of looking at house, which ones had internet connection and which ones didn’t was not something that was part of our criteria of what we were looking for in a house and it probably should have been cause some of the house we looked at were five to ten mile range outside of town. So there were a few that were out into the bluffs.

Andy Soth:

A look at the state’s broadband, as mapped by the Public Service Commission, reveals a checkerboard of digital haves in dark blue and have nots in light brown. But the potential for broadband to support a telecommuting workforce in the state’s rural areas is great.

Ricky Rolfsmeyer:

Broadband is one of the greatest tools we have to help rural people stay in the rural communities and be engaged.

Andy Soth:

Ricky Rolfsmeyer heads Wisconsin Rural Partners.

Ricky Rolfsmeyer:

It’s really, really going to be important to the rural communities. It’s going to be essential for almost anything and any kind of employment, and truly essential for keeping rural people rural.

Andy Soth:

Down the Great River Road from Pepin in Cochrane, the Cochrane Co-op telephone company keeps an old telephone switchboard from its early founding days.

Gina Tomlinson:

We are the oldest of the 11 telephone cooperatives in the state. In 1905, the cooperative was formed and it used to be called Farmers, Farmers Telephone.

Andy Soth:

The name may have changed but serving farmers remains a core mission.

Man:

There’s a piece of glass there.

Andy Soth:

At this farm miles into the hills above Cochrane, a technician services the hair-thin fiber optic cable.

Man:

Cutting the square end on the end of the glass.

Andy Soth:

Fiber to the farm provides the same level of service as available in town but it comes with a substantial price tag.

Gina Tomlinson:

In rural areas it’s very hard to be able to afford to go out to that one customer that has a mile, mile and a half driveway and they’re 10 miles out from the central office which is where all the electronics sit.

Andy Soth:

Federal grants and loans help.

Gina Tomlinson:

We took out a loan with the USDA Rural Utility Services to allow us to invest in a fiber network. It’s important for us that our customers have the same quality and type of service as they have in the bigger cities.

Andy Soth:

Advocates for rural broadband draw parallels to historic government investment in rural electrification and universal telephone service.

Gina Tomlinson:

Hopefully that will help get broadband out to all of America as an essential service.

Andy Soth:

It's a service that’s been essential for Janice Quinton and her family to live the kind of life they were searching for when they moved to Pepin.

Janice Quinton:

We wanted a smaller town atmosphere for the kids at school.

Andy Soth:

And the flexibility of working from home also improved that quality of life.

Janice Quinton:

I can be at the track meets. I can be at the softball games. I can both that at-home mom and be able to fulfill my work requirements.

Zac Schultz:

Joining us now from Rhinelander to talk about broadband in rural areas is Don Sidlowski, founder of the Northwoods Broadband Economic Development Coalition. Thanks for your time today.

Don Sidlowski:

Glad to be here.

Zac Schultz:

Broadband is being compared to rural electrification. Do we need fiber to reach every home in this state?

Don Sidlowski:

We do not actually. We can accomplish what we want with a creative patchwork quilt of broadband technology solutions. Some of it’s going to be fiber for sure. Point to point wireless has gained in technological capability as have the other ways of doing it. Is there going to be some glass to the towers and glass to the homes? Absolutely but that’s not the only way we can light up Wisconsin.

Zac Schultz:

There’s a proposal in the state budget that’ll help expand broadband. Is it enough and how does that work?

Don Sidlowski:

Well, what’s ever enough but compared to where we were a few short years ago. $500,000 a year and now we’re talking $35 million a year. Our legislators get it. It took a while for patient advocacy to really make that break through but when you hear the governor, lieutenant governor and all the leaders going around the state saying broadband this, broadband that, it means they got the message loud and clear. With that kind of funding for the next three or four years, we ought to be able to do a pretty good job making broadband universally accessible in all of Wisconsin, including those part of rural.

Zac Schultz:

Is broadband going to be the difference between one city or one region growing and one other region falling behind if they don’t have it?

Don Sidlowski:

Absolutely. There can’t be two Wisconsins. One that has all of the advantages of the 21st century and the other that’s in this backwards place without access to it. If you have broadband, the future is yours to control. It’s really up to your community then to decide how to leverage that for economic development, education and a variety of other things.

Zac Schultz:

There’s a lot of brain drain in rural and northern Wisconsin with young people going away for college and ending up in a big city because that’s where a lot of those jobs are. Is broadband the type of thing that can bring them back?

Don Sidlowski:

It sure is. If they decide to go off to technical college or four year school they can come back, work from home if they start a business themselves. Or work from a remote location for their employer. With the Fab Lab program that we started in the schools, this connects broadband to economic development and education. Those kids are going to be more encouraged to want to stay right here, closer to home and pursue their careers here in Wisconsin.

Zac Schultz:

From some parts of the state, Rhinelander’s considered a rural area. In your part of the state, is Rhinelander the big city? How do you define rural once you get to the north woods and people are more spread out?

Don Sidlowski:

Let’s put it into perspective. Wausau has a population of about 50,000. All of Oneida County, in which Rhinelander is located, has a population of about 40,000. My hometown of Three Lakes 2,000. All of Florence County, 2,000. So what is rural? How small can we get when we define rural? I’m going to say anything that really is under the size of a city of Wausau, 50,000 and under, you’re starting to get into rural and then there’s very rural.

Zac Schultz:

How does Wisconsin compare to other states especially in the region, competitively for this?

Don Sidlowski:

We’re catching up. Ten years ago we were way behind our neighbors to the west, in Minnesota, were putting in $100 million a year. And we’re up to over a third of that so we’re catching up fast. We’re going to be able to compete effectively with Illinois, Minnesota and the other surrounding Great Lake states.

Zac Schultz:

Don Sidlowski from the north woods. Thank you for your time today.

Don Sidlowski:

Pleasure. Thank you.

Zac Schultz:

Now for more news of the week. On Wednesday the Walker Administration submitted a request to the federal government for a waiver to drug test Wisconsin residents who apply for Medicaid. The program would test some participants including able-bodied adults who don’t have children. Walker said the program would result in drug addicts getting treatment and becoming more employable. Critics say it won’t prevent people from using drugs but instead would be another hurdle that poor people have to overcome in order to get the care they need. If approved, Wisconsin would be the first in the nation to drug test Medicaid applicants. That's all for tonight’s program. Frederica Freyberg will return next week. I’m Zac Schultz, have a great weekend.