Here & Now

Grothman And Pocan React To The State Of The Union

Frederica Freyberg:

The president’s State of the Union Address is practically in the rear view, except that he spoke to several issues that lay ahead for Congress to tackle: infrastructure and military spending, immigration. House Republicans attended a retreat following the address to strategize on priorities going forward. Wisconsin Republican Representative Glenn Grothman is still on his way back from that retreat and joins us now by phone and Congressman, thanks very much for doing so.

Glenn Grothman:

Glad to be on the show. I wish I was in the studio in Vilas Hall.

Frederica Freyberg:

As do we. First let me say that we are glad you and the rest of the delegation are ok following this week’s train accident.

Glenn Grothman:

A horrible thing, and it really ruined the week and it’s something I'll never forget, you know. Two nice guys who just I'm sure left that morning thinking a regular day at work, one passed away and the other in very serious condition. So, it’s something I'll never forget. We just have to pray for the families.

Frederica Freyberg:

Yeah, very sorry about that. But now to the latest news. What is your response to the releasing of the Republican Fiza memo?

Glenn Grothman:

Well I think it should be released. I mean people should know what people like me see. There’s a corresponding memo that was produced by Democrat staff. I’ve been in West Virginia the last two days. I have not had a chance to look at it yet. I plan on looking at it next week.

Frederica Freyberg:

What about the fact that the FBI and the Justice Department reportedly asked for this memo not to be released?

Glenn Grothman:

Well, I think maybe put the FBI in a bad light, so it’s not surprising they wouldn’t want it released. But Donald Trump is the head of the executive branch of the government, I'm glad it was released. I mean it seems ridiculous that –I don’t think it impacted national security, at least that I could see. It seems only fair that the public should know what I know.

Frederica Freyberg:

Let's move along from that. As for the Congressional GOP retreat, what's the consensus? What are the priorities?

Glenn Grothman:

Well, we obviously spent a lot of time talking about immigration. We spent a lot of time talking about national security. We had both the secretary of state and secretary of defense talk to us about the importance of military build-up. And we also talked about the benefits of the tax cut, went over what the public knows about that, and things we can continue to convey to the public about that. Those were the big three things we addressed. We began to look a little bit at the infrastructure bill in the future, though to be honest, there are a lot of details yet to be filled in there.

Frederica Freyberg:

On that, the president wants, as you know, $1.5 trillion in infrastructure spending. About $200 billion from the feds, the rest coming from the states. How in your mind would Wisconsin fare under such a plan when we already struggle to fund our roads and highways?

Glenn Grothman:

Oh, anything we get to the state of Wisconsin with regard to the roads is for the good. You know, I think in the last few months Governor Walker has moved up some projects, at least over the last year he has. But even then, there are more projects yet to go. And whatever more money we can get to Wisconsin, whether it goes towards moving up the Highway 23 project, whether it goes somewhere else around the state is for the better.

Frederica Freyberg:

Sure getting federal funds is for the better, but you, having served in the legislature, know the struggles of finding those funds for infrastructure in Wisconsin. Where would that come from?

Glenn Grothman:

I think with matching funds, some would be contributed by the state. Some would be contributed, I think, by fees. And some would come from the federal government. I think some of it is going to be dedicated to rural broadband. There’s no question we’re going to have our eye on the more rural areas of the state and I think rural broadband is very good for economic development in the rural parts of the state, so hopefully that area will get its fair share.

Frederica Freyberg:

Congress is up against another deadline as you know, to authorize spending, or risk another shutdown at the same time facing a deadline to deal with so-called dreamers. Ahead of outlining his immigration plan, which includes building the wall, the president painted a frightening picture of illegal immigrants as murderers and criminals. Here’s a snippet of what he said more generally.

Donald Trump:

My duty and the sacred duty of every elected official in this chamber is to defend Americans, to protect their safety, their families, their communities, and their right to the American dream. Because Americans are dreamers, too.

Frederica Freyberg:

Now as to the president’s immigration plan Congressman, he would offer citizenship to 1.8 million people brought into the U.S. illegally as children. What’s your position on that?

Glenn Grothman:

Well, we’ll see what restrictions there are in that regard. And I think the important thing is the bill that we pass has to make sure in the future our immigration law works. You know, in the past we’ve had presidents of both parties–this is not a partisan issue. I think both President Obama and President Bush did a bad job on immigration. I think the important things in Donald Trump’s plan are things like an end of chain migra–chain immigration. Things like getting rid of the lottery, having people come in that way, setting ourselves down on a merit-based system. Something we talked about at length. It’s still a work in progress. I personally would be surprised to get it done by February 8th. I do not know why what a potential DACA compromise has to do with you getting your income tax refund on time. I hope there are not extremists in the legislature who vote against keeping the government open because they want a DACA bill now. Most of these immigrants, many of these immigrants, I shouldn’t say most, but some of these immigrants have been in the country for 25 years. And to me we want a good deal. So that good deal be February 8th, March 8 or April 8th, it’s no reason to shut down the government in the interim.

Frederica Freyberg:

I read that you’re quoted as saying that “we would rather shut down the government than go down the path of ruining America.” Is that what an immigration deal would do?

Glenn Grothman:

No, I — we are not going, I'm not going to vote to shut down the government, I'll tell you that. I think the government should be kept open. However, if there are Democrats who say they will shut down the government unless I vote for a bad immigration deal, no. I'll vote to keep the government open, but I think the two things are separate issues.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Congressman Glenn Grothman, we need to leave it there. Thanks very much for your time.

Glenn Grothman:

Glad to be on the show as always.

Frederica Freyberg:

There are some 8,000 dreamers in Wisconsin, brought here by their parents as children. Protection against deportation for them under the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, or DACA, runs out March 5th under a President Trump executive order. We interviewed one of the dreamers this week, college sophomore Lupe Salmeron came to Wisconsin from Mexico when she was six years old. She describes what it’s like to live with the uncertainty of whether she will be able to stay.

Lupe Salmeron:

I guess, like, it’s always on your mind, you know. It’s just subconsciously there. You don’t know if you’ll be able to use your degree when you graduate. You don’t know what’s going to happen, so you just kind of are like here powering through it, you know, trying to get it done. So that if you can, you know, have a life with it after like you’ll have that but if you don’t, you just kind of, you know, there back at where you were. But it just kind of, you know, makes me afraid for the future, you know. With DACA, I knew that like I would be able to use my degree. I knew that I’d be able to get an internship. I knew I’d be able to get a job. But with it kind of being up in the air, I'm really not sure what’s going to happen. I don’t know if I'll be employable. I don’t know…I don’t know what’s going to happen, so just kind of there, you know. We’re living in limbo again.

Frederica Freyberg:

That was Madison Edgewood College and DACA recipient, Lupe Salmeron. Salmeron was a guest at the last State of the Union Address. The U.S. representative who invited her joins us now, Madison Democrat Congressman Mark Pocan. Thanks very much for being here.

Mark Pocan:

Glad to be here, thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

So the first thing I wanted to ask about was your reaction to the release of this Republican Fiza memo.

Mark Pocan:

You know, I had read it a while back and I said go ahead and release it. There’s nothing here. But, and it’s a big important but, the underlying information, you have to redact how we get our information or you’re sharing with the Russians and any other country how we gather it. Unfortunately, the Republicans weren’t willing to do that through this whole process. They wouldn’t show it to the FBI or Justice a week ago. They wouldn’t show it to the Senate Intelligence Committee which are also run by Republicans. I mean this has been such a manufactured crisis, so, you know, I think it’s fine, it’s out there now. I don’t think anyone is going to see anything that has not already been reported. I just think it’s awful risky the way we released it, because now we’re probably showing other countries how we gather intelligence.

Frederica Freyberg:

Hence why the FBI and Justice maybe didn’t want it released?

Mark Pocan:

Exactly. That was their concern. No one’s actually concerned about the content of the memo because it’s a big nothing burger. It’s a piece of lettuce between two buns. There’s no burger there. But because they’re so desperate to try to distract this Mueller investigation at any cost. Let’s let it run its course and this is just one more of those efforts by Devin Nunes, who already has had to supposedly recuse himself from the Russia investigation but he still directed the staff to write this. He’s the guy, you gotta remember, like nine months ago said he had some information he had to share with the White House. Then we found out a few days later he got it the night before from the White House and then he gave it to them. He’s been completely proven to be a sycophant on this. And now, this is again his memo. So, I think at the end, you know, we’ll look back in a couple weeks and go oh, that was a yawn, but right now the concern by the intelligence community is we’re giving away information that we never have done before.

Frederica Freyberg:

Moving along to the president’s State of the Union and reaction to that. On his immigration plan, he says he would like to offer a path to citizenship for like 1.8 million immigrants brought here by their parents. You’re calling for so-called “clean” dream act. What is that?

Mark Pocan:

Every time we try and negotiate with the president, the goal line moves. So at one point we had an agreement, this is months ago, to provide some additional roads along the border, some drone patrol, nothing about a wall, to fix what he broke because DACA was not broke until the president broke it. And then he went and had a rally the next day and the base wants a wall, so we were off that agreement. And then during the shutdown conversations just recently, we had another agreement where actually after they walked away from the president, the president’s staff came up to Chuck Schumer and said, “Here’s what the president really meant.” That’s not negotiation. So we can’t really trust the way the goal post keeps moving. Bottom line is we should just fix DACA because it never should have been broken to begin with. And let’s have a meaningful conversation about immigration reform. But it has been very difficult with the president in the White House on this issue because I think there’s competing factors within the White House, whether it be Miller and Kelly, or other staff. It’s been very challenging.

Frederica Freyberg:

Did you hear their voices in his State of the Union?

Mark Pocan:

That was the part that I think is most memorable from a negative perspective of the State of the Union was just the fear-mongering around immigrants. We talked more about MS13 gang members as if they’re around every corner than we did talk about the opioid crisis or other issues. So, clearly there was a lot of fear-mongering put in that speech to try to justify a wall and I think most people think the wall’s unnecessary, but immigration reform is a conversation we have to have.

Frederica Freyberg:

The president was able to boast, many would believe rightfully, about the economy. I mean, unemployment is low. The stock market is screaming hot. Do Democrats like yourself reject that these are positive indicators of a strong economy?

Mark Pocan:

It's a positive sign that for 80 consecutive months, so, the vast majority of that under President Obama, since 2008 the economy has been coming up. The problem is the stock market alone isn’t a good indicator of how real working families are affected by it. We’re finally seeing a little bit of a spike in people’s wage, but that’s been behind. So while productivity is up and the stock market’s up, people aren’t really seeing it yet in their paychecks and that’s the part we have to address because wages have been flat for so long. There’s some catching up to do. The minimum wage is way subpar and I think once we address those issues, then real working families across Wisconsin will actually feel the economy like those in the top 1 and 2% have felt it.

Frederica Freyberg:

Well, speaking of more money in people’s paychecks, the Republican tax plan would put more money in people’s paychecks. We are told that average families will see lower tax bills as well. What’s your take on those can tax cuts?

Mark Pocan:

Two things. First of all, these are tax cuts done for the wealthiest, for the Republican donors as said by several Republicans during the whole process. In ten years, when the tax cuts for the middle class completely go away and vanish, they stay for the corporations and for the wealthiest. So, 83% of the money in ten years will go to the top 1%. That’s the facts of what they passed. So people will see a little increase now and I would caution people that there was a big controversy. The IRS might have maybe overestimated because they were being a little bit politically pressured to give you bigger amounts now that you may not see at tax time next year. So be a little careful if you’re one of the people who waits for that refund. You may be getting more now. So just be a little bit aware of that, but on general, the tax cuts are totally skewed for the corporations and wealthiest. And ten years the only part that’s left. So really, if you want to do tax relief in a meaningful way, you have to affect working class people. Middle class, those aspiring to be in the middle class for a longer period of time than what they’re doing.

Frederica Freyberg:

What's your take on the president’s plan for infrastructure spending?

Mark Pocan:

We’re hoping we can maybe have some negotiation on this because I think he has talked about investing in infrastructure. The problem is the vast majority of what he’s talking about is selling off roads and bridges to private companies and letting them build things and charge tolls. So just maybe got a little bit in your check off the tax bill and now you’re pay it to cross a bridge somewhere. That’s not investing in public infrastructure like I think most people consider. Investing in roads and bridges and schools and broadband with public dollars is what would actually make sense. And if he’s willing to do more than what he’s talked about in that area, I would love to work with him as I think most people would. But right now, just selling things off to Wall Street hedge fund managers so they can make a profit and everyone else pays a toll is not a good idea.

Frederica Freyberg:

Congressman Mark Pocan, thanks very much.

Mark Pocan:

Sure, thank you.