Here & Now

Ann Jacobs on Discord Over Wisconsin's Elections

Tim Ramthun:

The people of this state don’t feel that the election was certifiable, therefore, the request to decertify is on the table, and it should take an action.

Frederica Freyberg:

So Republican candidate for governor and state Representative Tim Ramthun continues to call on the legislature to decertify the 2020 election. That is regarded as a legal impossibility, but the fallout from the last election continues to royal Wisconsin in all the ways we know. The Gableman investigation, the false electors, the state Supreme Court rulings on ballot drop boxes and calls to abolish the Elections Commission, and now there’s more that prompted an emergency meeting of commissioners Thursday night. Someone at the epicenter of this, former chair of the Wisconsin Elections Commission and Democrat Ann Jacobs. Thanks very much for being here.

Ann Jacobs:

Thank you so much for having me.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what came to light this week is the two people trying to prove election fraud vulnerabilities admitted to committing fraud by requesting absentee ballots in other people’s names including Robin Vos. As an election commissioner, what is your response to that?

Ann Jacobs:

I’m astonished at the fact that people are going out and intentionally committing election crimes and then pretending they are doing it to somehow prove fraud in an election. What they did broke the law, and they should be prosecuted.

Frederica Freyberg:

And so I know that the Elections Commission voted to put out fliers ahead of the primary, kind of warning clerks and others about this. What more specifically do you want, and how soon?

Ann Jacobs:

Well, what we want are for people to stop doing this, and we think law enforcement should stop encouraging it. What we did indicate was we would send postcards to people who have had their absentee ballots sent to an address other than their home address, their home registration address, just to be sure there wasn’t this sort of monkey business going around elsewhere. We also did notify clerks that they are obligated to refer cases of fraud, which would include cases like what we are discussing, to their local district attorney if they find it, and what we’re doing is encouraging people to use the myvote.wi.gov website to check their own absentee ballot status.

Frederica Freyberg:

Great. On another matter, what do you make of calls from people like Tim Ramthun and Donald Trump to decertify the 2020 election in Wisconsin?

Ann Jacobs:

Elections aren’t about feelings. Elections are about numbers. In the state of Wisconsin, we had an accurate, properly tallied, recounted election where Donald Trump lost by 20,000 votes. In comparison, in 2016, we had an accurately tallied, recounted vote where Donald Trump won by 20,000 votes. Same election administration. Same election officials. Same rules. Sometimes voters change their minds. Telling people that people feel the election wasn’t fair and accurate simply reinforces the incorrect position our elections was anything other than accurate.

Frederica Freyberg:

Wisconsin’s false Republican electors, including one of your fellow commissioners, are certainly on the radar of federal investigators. Why did the commission, though, unanimously vote not to sanction them?

Ann Jacobs:

The decision of the commission, I think, is best articulated in the memo given by the Department of Justice that was incorporated into our decision, and it was on that basis that the commission made that decision. Now, recall that the commission did that with Commissioner Spindell sitting in on it. He has since — since a lawsuit was filed, he’s now agreed to recuse himself from future discussions of it, and there’s now an action in circuit court to return the matter to the commission for further evaluation. The other thing that’s important to note is a lot of the recent information we’re receiving on the false electors came out after the commission’s decision.

Frederica Freyberg:

There have been calls to abolish the Elections Commission. What’s your response to that?

Ann Jacobs:

Well, that seems to be what the Wisconsin Legislature does every time someone they don’t like wins. We started out with the secretary of state, and then they didn’t like how that person administered the elections. So they created the State Election Board. Then they didn’t like that, so they created the Government Accountability Board. They didn’t like how the Government Accountability Board worked so they created the Elections Commission, and now that the Elections Commission, which requires bipartisan approval of all of its actions, now that they don’t like the Elections Commission because Donald Trump lost, they want to go back to a secretary of state.

Frederica Freyberg:

I want to get to this with just about a minute left. What effect, in your mind, does all of this, all this talk of decertification of elections, and law changes have on the average voter and the clerks?

Ann Jacobs:

Well, on the clerks, it’s made them — they’ve been accused of malfeasance. They’ve had physical and verbal threats made against them. That is beyond the pale and that needs to stop. For the average voter, I tell them go vote. Your vote will count. The vote is accurate. It’s safe. We want you to get out there and vote. We’ve got an election coming up in August. Another one in November. So let’s go vote.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Ann Jacobs, thanks very much for joining us.

Ann Jacobs:

Thank you.