Amanpour and Company

>> WE'LL TURN NOW TO MYANMAR WHERE AUNG SUNG SUU KYI HAS BEEN MOVED FROM HOUSE ARREST TO SOLITARY CONFINEMENT IN PRISON. >> SHE'S BEEN HELD SINCE BEING OUSTED IN A COUP SINCE LAST YEAR. THE NOBEL LAUREATE FELL FROM GRACE AFTER THE REFUSAL TO PROTECT THE ROHINGYA MINORITY. THOUSANDS FLED TO BANGLADESH AFTER A BRUTALING CAMPAIGN OF KILLING FIVE YEARS AGO. DR. MUSSINA HAS BEEN VISITING THE INFAMOUS REFUGEE CAMP SINCE THOSE KILLINGS. SHE'S THE MEDICAL CHAIR OF HUMANITY AUXILIARY YUM AND DISCUSSES WHAT THE REFUGEES ARE FACING THERE. >> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US. WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO GO TO BANGLADESH. WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN THIS? >> BACK IN 2017 WHEN THE GENOCIDE STARTED THE IMAGES OF HELPLESS CHILDREN, WOMEN CROSSING THE BORDER AND YOU KNOW, IN DIRE SITUATIONS, I JUST COULDN'T SLEEP FOR MANY NIGHTS. IT WAS DIFFICULT TO SEE THAT AS A MOTHER AND AS A PHYSICIAN. IN CANADA WE ARE PROTECTED AND HENCE, I LOOKED INTO AVENUES HOW I CAN GO AND VOLUNTEER AND TREAT THESE PATIENTS SO ONE DAY I HAD A DISCUSSION WITH MY HUSBAND. I KISSED HIM GOOD-BYE ALONG WITH MY 2-YEAR-OLD AND 4-YEAR-OLD, AND I WAS OFF TO BANGLADESH FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS TO SEE FOR MYSELF AND TREAT THESE PATIENTS. OFTENTIMES, AT LEAST GIVEN THE MEDIA CYCLES WE GO FROM CRISIS TO CRISIS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE MIGHT NOT RECOGNIZE AND REALIZE THAT THERE IS STILL A CRISIS ALONG THE BORDER THERE BETWEEN MYANMAR AND BANGLADESH. YOU'VE BEEN THERE MULTIPLE TIMES. >> YES. >> WHAT ARE THE KINDS OF AILME AILMENTS AND PROBLEMS IN 2017 AND WHAT DID YOU SEE IN THE MOST RECENT TRIP? >> IT WAS 2017 AND I WAS THERE AROUND DECEMBER AND AT THAT TIME PEOPLE WERE STILL COMING. BY THAT TIME WE HAD ABOUT 600,000 PEOPLE COMING TO BANGLADESH. SO WITH THE TYPE OF PROBLEMS I WAS SEEING BACK THEN WERE MALNUTRITION IN KIDS AND TUBERCULOSIS AND A LOT OF INFECTION AND GRAVES DISEASE WHICH WE DON'T SEE HERE AS MUCH BECAUSE OF HER MEDICATION AND TREATMENT, AND THERE WAS A LOT OF TRAUMA FOR THE FIRST TIME I WENT TO SEE THEM. ESPECIALLY MENTAL TRAUMA. I HAD A 30-YEAR-OLD WOMAN COME IN TO SEE ME. SHE WAS COMPLAINING OF ABDOMINAL PAIN AND AFTER AN EXAM I FIGURED OUT IT WASN'T THE ROOT CAUSE OF HER VISIT, AND I STARTED TO QUESTION HER. SHE FLED FROM MYANMAR WITH HER FAMILY AND SIX KIDS AND SHE WAS A FARMER BACK IN MYANMAR. SHE WAS QUITE HAPPY WITH A SMALL FARM AND ANIMALS. THE BURMESE MILITARY WERE THERE AND THEY WERE BURNING HER CROPS AND VEGETATION SO SHE AND HER HUSBAND JUST FROZE AND PANICKED, AND THEN THEY -- THEN THEY STARTED TO JUST GRAB THEIR KIDS FROM WHEREVER THE KIDS WERE AND UNFORTUNATELY, EVERYTHING HAPPENED SO QUICKLY. THEY -- THEY WITNESSED THEIR 1-YEAR-OLD AND 3-YEAR-OLD SORT OF BURN IN THEIR HOMES WHILE THEY WERE TRYING TO GATHER THE OTHER CHILDREN AND FLEE FROM THERE, AND SO THEY WERE NOT ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, RESCUE THEIR 1-YEAR-OLD AND 3-YEAR-OLD AND THEY JUST HEARD THEIR CRIES AND THEN SHE TRAVELED ON FOOT FOR 14 DAYS WITH HER FAMILY WITHOUT ANY FOOD AND THEY JUST HAD A BIT OF DRINK FROM THE STREAM WATER AND YOU KNOW, WE FELT IT WAS SO IMPORTANT NOT TO JUST TREAT THEIR PHYSICAL WOUNDS, BUT ALSO TO TREAT THEIR MENTAL WOUNDS. IT'S NOT EASY TO FORGET THESE STORIES. SO WHEN YOU COME BACK, YOU WANT TO ADVOCATE FOR THEM. YOU WANT TO KEEP THEIR STORIES ALIVE. THEY MADE YOU SEE THROUGH THEIR STORIES A GLIMPSE OF THE HORROR WE HAVE LIVED. >> IN 2017 WHEN YOU WERE SEEING PERHAPS A LOT OF PHYSICAL INJURIES FROM THE TREK AND THE FLIGHT FROM MYANMAR. NOW ON THE MOST RECENT TRIP, THE CAMPS ARE STILL THERE. THEY'RE MORE ESTABLISHED. WHAT ARE THE KINDS OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE ARE COMING TO YOUR CLINICS FOR? >> YEAH. SO HUMANITY HAS ESTABLISHED TWO CLINICS. IT HAS STARTED IN JANUARY TO BE A FORMALIZED CLINIC. BEFORE THAT WE WERE WORKING WITH THE LOCAL NGOs. SO NOW WE'RE SEEING THESE PATIENTS HAVE CHRONIC ILLNESSES, DIABETES, HEART DISEASE AND CHOLESTEROL AND ALSO A LOT OF INFECTIONS STILL BECAUSE THE CONDITIONS OF THE CAMPS AND LOTS OF SKIN DISEASE, A LOT OF DENTAL DISEASE. THE KIDS HAVE NEVER, EVER SEEN A DENTIST IN THEIR LIFE AND ON TOP OF THAT, THE MENTAL ANGUISH AND THE MENTAL DISEASES ARE THERE ESPECIALLY PTSD AND DEPRESSION. FOR THE YOUNG WOMEN AND GIRLS, IT'S ESPECIALLY DIFFICULT BECAUSE THEY NOT ONLY HAVE TO DEAL WITH THEIR MENTAL TRAUMA, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AFTER THEIR MANY YOUNG CHILDREN BECAUSE IN MYANMAR THEY HAVE A TENDENCY TO BE PREGNANT BECAUSE IF YOU'RE PREGNANT YOU'RE LESS LIKELY TO BE RAPED AND LESS LIKELY TO BE ATTACKED AND THEY DON'T HAVE MUCH KNOWLEDGE OF BIRTH CONTROL AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO A LOT OF EDUCATION HAS TO BE DONE, AS WELL AND MOST OF MY WORK WAS ALSO GAINING THE TRUST OF THESE PEOPLE THAT THEY CAN TRUST US WITH THEIR HEALTH BECAUSE THEY DID NOT TRUST THE HEALTH OFFICIALS. ANY HEALTH-RELATED PROBLEMS THEY WOULD GO TO THE ELDERS IN THEIR COMMUNITY OR THE MID WIVES. IT'S A LOT OF EDUCATION THAT THEY DO AND TRAINING FOR THE LOCAL DOCTORS BECAUSE WHENEVER WE GO THERE THEY'RE EITHER TEACHING COMPLICATED PREGNANCY-RELATED CASES OR INFECTION-RELATED CASES SO THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE OUR WORK WHEN THEY'RE PHYSICALLY NOT THERE. >> HOW DID COVID IMPACT THESE REFUGEE CAMPS WHERE THERE'S TREMENDOUS POPULATION DENSITY ALREADY. >> THERE ARE ABOUT 34 CAMPS AND IT'S IN A VERY SMALL SPACE OF 13 KILOMETERS SQUARE ONLY AND IN ONE KILOMETER SQUARE AS OF 2020, THERE ARE ABOUT 46,000 PEOPLE ALL SQUISHED IN. SO COVID SET OFF A RIPPLE OF PANIC ALL OVER THE CAMPUS WHILE IT'S IN THE LOCAL DOCTORS AS TO HOW THEY WERE GOING TO MANAGE. WE DID THE OUTREACH PROGRAM IN COVID BECAUSE IN THE CAMPS PEOPLE WERE QUITE AFRAID OF COVID. YOU DO NOT WANT TO COME FORTHWITH SYMPTOMS BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT HAD MADE ISOLATION CENTERS SO IF ANYBODY CAME FORTHWITH SYMPTOMS, THEY WOULD BE SENT TO THE ISOLATION CENTERS AND THAT WAS A TOTAL NIGHTMARE FOR THE ROHINGYAS WHERE THEY WOULD BE SEPARATED FROM THEIR FAMILY LIKE THEY WOULD IN MYANMAR. SO WHAT THEY DID IS WE ESTABLISHED FOUR OUTREACH PROGRAMS WHERE THERE WOULD BE A PHYSICIAN. A ROHINGYA VOLUNTEER TO SPEAK THE LANGUAGE AND OUR VOLUNTEER, MID WIFE AND NURSE WILL ACTUALLY GO INTO THE SHELTERS OF TWO CAMPS, 17 AND 20 AND THEY WILL ASK AND ASSESS THEM FOR SYMPTOMS ACCORDING TO THE W.H.O. SURVEY AND BECAUSE THERE WAS NO TESTING BACK IN 2020 WHEN THE COVID BROKE OUT. IF THE ANSWER TO THE POSITIVE TESTS, AND WE TREATED SYMPTOMATICALLY WITH ANTIBIOTICS AND WE WENT BACK FOR FOLLOW UP. SO OUR ORGANIZATION, OUR TINY ORGANIZATION DID ASSESS MORE THAN 80,000 PEOPLE AND WE DID MORE THAN 6,000 EDUCATIONAL SESSIONS BECAUSE WE WERE ABLE TO BREAK MYTHS ABOUT COVID AND ALSO DEBUNK SOME OF THE GOSSIP THAT WAS GOING ON THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DRINK THIS WATER YOU CAN GET RID OF COVID AND THINGS LIKE THAT. SO I THINK PEOPLE UNDER ESTIMATE SMALL ORGANIZATIONS, BUT IF YOUR PASSION AND DEDICATION IS THERE, YOU KNOW, IT'S POSSIBLE TO MOVE MOUNTAINS. >> GIVE ME AN IDEA OF WHAT HAPPENS IN BASICALLY A SOCIETY WHERE THESE REFUGEE CAMPS ARE, WHERE THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, MOST OF THEM ARE UNEMPLOYED, MANY MEN IN THOSE VILLAGES CAN'T FIND JOBS AND THEY'RE NOT WELCOME IN THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY. SO WHAT ARE THE RIPPLE EFFECTS TO THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN IN THESE CAMPS. >> SO THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN, THEY SUFFERED THE MOST. THEY WERE ABUSED BACK IN MYANMAR, AND HERE THEY HAVE SOMETIMES ABUSE FROM THE HUSBANDS BECAUSE THE HUSBANDS ARE FRUSTRATED AND THEY HAD SMALL JOBS IN MYANMAR AND NOW THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO. SOMETIMES THE LOCAL COMMUNITY MIGHT EMPLOY THEM TO BUILD UP A STRUCTURE OR BUILD TO FIX SOME TOILETS IN THE CAMPS, BUT THESE ARE NOT PERMANENT JOBS THAT THEY HAVE, AND A LOT OF THE WOMEN ARE WIDOWS NOW. SO THEY'VE LOST THEIR HUSBANDS AND THESE MEND TEND TO MARRY NOW TWO OR THREE TIMES AND SO THE FIRST WIFE WITH THEIR KIDS ARE SORT OF SEMI-ABANDONED SO THERE'S A LOT OF MENTAL ANGUISH GOING THERE. THIS TIME AROUND I WAS THERE AND WE HAD ESTABLISHED PLENTIAL HEALTH FACILITY FOR THE PSYCHO SOCIAL SUPPORT OF THESE YOUNG WOMEN AND GIRLS, AND I INTERVIEWED A 13-YEAR-OLD WHO WAS MARRIED OFF TO HERR COUSIN WHO WAS ALREADY MARRIED WITH KIDS WITHOUT HER WILL BECAUSE THE FATHER WANTED TO MAKE SURE. HE HAD MANY CHILDREN. HE WANTED TO GIVE UP THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE YOUNG GIRL BECAUSE SHE'S MARRIED OFF IT'S ONE LESS MOUTH TO FEED FOR HIM, AND SHE -- SHE GETS BEATEN ON A DAILY BASIS BY HER IN-LAWS, BY HER HUSBAND AND HER HUSBAND'S FIRST WIFE, SO SHE'S BASICALLY USED AS A SLAVE, YOU KNOW, SEXUALLY ABUSED AS WELL AS PHYSICALLY. SO SHE TRIED TO RUN OFF FROM HER IN-LAWS PLACE TWICE TO HER FATHER'S PLACE WHICH IS IN A DIFFERENT CAMP. THERE ARE 34 CAMPS IN TOTAL. THE CAMPS ARE QUITE FAR APART. SO SHE RAN OFF TWICE, BUT SHE WAS ALWAYS SENT BACK TO HER HUSBAND BY HER DAD BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, HE WILL NOT HAVE HER BACK IN AND THEN IT WILL BE ANOTHER MOUTH TO FEED BECAUSE THEY THEMSELVES ARE IN DIRE CONDITION. SO WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THIS 13-YEAR-OLD? I CAN'T EVEN SAY OH, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD JUST CONTINUE YOUR EDUCATION. DON'T GO BACK TO YOUR HUSBAND BECAUSE AFTER THIRD TO FIFTH GRADE THERE IS NO EDUCATION FOR WOMEN. USUALLY THE PARENTS DON'T WANT TO SEND THEIR GIRLS TO SCHOOL ANYMORE BECAUSE THEY'RE SORT OF PRIMING THEM FOR MARRIAGE AND THEY THINK THAT IF THEY GET INTO TROUBLE THEY MIGHT GET A BAD NAME AND THEY WILL NOT GET MARRIED IN A GOOD FAMILY, BUT AT LEAST WITH OUR ORGANIZATION, WE HAVE ESTABLISHED A SAFE PLACE FOR WOMEN WHERE WOMEN ARE BEING TAUGHT HOW TO KNIT AND MAKE BEDSPREADS AS WELL AS SHAWLS, AND THEY GET A PERCENTAGE OF THEIR INCOMES SO AT LEAST THEY HAVE SOME SKILL SET THAT THEY WILL BE ACQUIRING AND THEY WILL, YOU KNOW, HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF INCOME AS WELL TO STAND ON THEIR FEET. >> HOW DO YOU GAIN THE TRUST OF WOMEN AND GIRLS IN SITUATIONS LIKE THIS? I MEAN, EVEN THOUGH YOU SPEAK THE LANGUAGE YOU'RE FROM THE OUTSIDE. YOU'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET ON A PLANE AND LEAVE. >> YES. YES. SO THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT. SO IN ANY COMMUNITY, IT'S IMPORTANT TO GET THE LOCAL PHYSICIANS AND THE LOCAL NGOs TO BE YOUR ALLY, AND WE HAVE BEEN QUITE FORTUNATE THAT WE HAVE TWO LOCAL NGOs WHO HAVE BEEN WORKING SIDE BY SIDE, AND EVEN IF WE ARE IN CANADA AND IN ANOTHER PART OF THE WORLD BY WHATSAPP AND BY A TELEPHONE COMMUNICATION AND BY E-MAIL AND WE'RE ALWAYS IN TOUCH WITH THEM, AND WE HAVE HIRED ROHINGYA VOLUNTEERS AND WE GIVE THEM A SALARY, AS WELL TO HELP US TRANSLATE. SO WHEN YOU SEE THAT PERSON OF YOUR COMMUNITY WORKING WITH THEM AND THEY'RE TELLING YOU THAT THEY'RE DOING GOOD WORK THAT ALSO AUTOMATICALLY HELPS TO GAIN THEIR TRUST AND IN THE CAMPS THERE ARE SOME ROHINGYA INDIVIDUALS, USUALLY MEN WHO ARE, LIKE, TEN, 15 SHELTERS AND THEY'RE CALLED MAJIS. WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH THEM, AS WELL, TO HELP US, YOU KNOW, CONVEY THE MESSAGE THAT WE'RE THERE TO HELP THEM AND THAT HAS HELPED TO GAIN SOME OF THE TRUST THAT THEY HAVE LOST FROM DECADES OF ABUSE. >> SO WHAT DO YOU SEE HAPPENING TO ALL THESE CHILDREN THAT YOU MIGHT SEE ON YOUR REPEAT VISITS FROM 2017 UNTIL NOW, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT A LOST GENERATION HERE THAT AREN'T GOING TO SCHOOL, THAT DON'T HAVE ANY KIND OF STABILITY OR SECURITY IN THEIR LIVES? >> YEAH. SO I DID VISIT A COUPLE OF COMMUNITY SCHOOLS AND THEIR EDUCATION IS VERY, VERY RUDIMENTARY. THEY ARE TAUGHT BURMESE, ENGLISH AND A LITTLE BIT OF MATH, BUT NOT BENGALI BECAUSE THE BANGLADESH GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WANT THEM TO INTEGRATE BECAUSE IF THEY LEARN THE LANGUAGE THEY MIGHT INTEGRATE AND GET A JOB AND THEY DON'T WANT THAT. THE KIDS ARE HOPEFUL AND THEY HEAR STORIES FROM THEIR PARENTS HOW THEIR LAND WAS AND WHERE THEY LIVED AND THEY'RE KIND OF HOPEFUL AND SOME OF THEM THINK THAT THIS IS HOW LIFE IS. I MET A VERY BRIGHT 18-YEAR-OLD THE SECOND TIME I WENT AND HE TELLS ME THAT WHEN HE WAS IN MYANMAR HE WOULD HAVE TO GO ON A BOAT FOR AN HOUR TO GET TO HIS SCHOOL, AND THAT ALSO, IF IT FLOODED, WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR HIM TO DO THAT. HE WOULD COME BACK AND WHEN HE WOULD STUDY, THE MILITARY WILL

GO AROUND AND IF IT'S AFTER 5

00 A.M. YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY OF THE LIGHTS ON, SO THE PARENTS WOULD SHUT THE SHUTTER OF THEIR HOMES AND HE WOULD LIGHT THE CANDLE AND STUDY UNDER THE CANDLELIGHT BECAUSE HE WAS A VERY BRIGHT STUDENT AND HE WANTED TO BE A TEACHER. SO NOW IN BANGLADESH HE'S LOSING HOPE. HOW DO I GET MORE EDUCATION? AT LEAST I WAS GETTING SOME EDUCATION IN MYANMAR. SO WE'RE TRYING TO SUPPORT HIM FROM HUMANITY AUXILIAN, AND WE BOUGHT HIM A LAPTOP TO SEE IF HE CAN TAKE COURSES FROM OUTSIDE AND THAT IS QUITE DIFFICULT. TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION IT'S -- IT'S A DIRE SITUATION. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THESE KIDS. THEY WILL HAVE LIKELY VERY MINIMAL EDUCATION AND MAYBE SOME MINIMAL SKILLS THAT THEY MIGHT ACQUIRE, BUT IT'S HARD TO KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN. >> SOMETIMES I WONDER IF YOU THINK THE WORLD HAS SORT OF FORGOTTEN THIS. IT'S BEEN FIVE YEARS SINCE THE GENOCIDE IMAGES CAME ON TV. IT'S REALLY BEEN LONGER, AT LEAST TEN YEARS SINCE THE TENSION BETWEEN THESE COMMUNITIES WAS FLARING UP. BUT WE HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT CRISES TODAY THAT WE'RE WATCHING ON THE NEWS THAT THIS IS ONE THAT JUST FLIES UNDER THE RADAR. >> I THINK THE UKRAINE WAR AND THE OTHER CRISES ALL OVER THE WORLD SUCH AS THE YEMEN OR THE SYRIAN CRISIS, AS WELL. SO IT IS -- IT SEEMS DEFINITELY LIKE PEOPLE HAVE FORGOTTEN ABOUT IT. I THINK -- I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP THEIR CAUSE ALIVE AND TO ADVOCATE FOR THEM BECAUSE, LIKE I SAID, FOR GENERATIONS AND GENERATIONS THEY'VE BEEN OPPRESSED AND THEY DON'T HAVE A GOOD ADVOCACY GROUP FOR THEM ALTHOUGH SOME THINGS ARE IMPORTANT NOWADAYS. >> THESE ARE HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE STUCK IN LIMBO WITHOUT ANY FAULT OF THEIR OWN OR THEY, BECAUSE OF THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEF AND THE WAY THEY LOOK AND BEING A MINORITY AND THEY'VE BEEN TORTURED AND THEY'VE LOST EVERYTHING THEY OWNED. SO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO KEEP THEIR PATH ALIVE AND TO KEEP REMINDING THE WORLD THAT IF ONE -- ONE COMMUNITY SUFFERS THEN WE ALL SUFFER. >> THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.