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Announcer:

The following program is a PBS Wisconsin original production.

Frederica Freyberg:

A new year rings in a new election season and following a state Supreme Court ruling, all new voting districts.

I’m Frederica Freyberg. Tonight on “Here & Now,” Governor Tony Evers and the state party chairs foreshadow the year ahead in state politics and elections and the state superintendent of schools says now is the time to fund special education. Plus, how educators and students are adapting and incorporating artificial intelligence in the classroom. It’s “Here & Now” for January 5.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

Governor Tony Evers says new voting maps will be in place for the 2024 elections. As the new year kicks off, we ask him about that and other hot button issues. He joins us now. Governor Evers, thanks very much for joining us.

Tony Evers:

Good to be here, Frederica.

Frederica Freyberg:

So describe for us what you count as your biggest accomplishments of the past year.

Tony Evers:

There’s a couple that come to mind. First of all, shared revenue was a huge bipartisan win, bipartisan win for the state of Wisconsin. I spent a lot of time when I was running for office talking about it every single day, all day long, and it’s kind of a thing that most people — shared revenue, what is it, that sort of thing. But at the end of the day, most of the heavy lifting from government happens at the local level, not the state or federal level. And so we worked on that and compromised and got some things through, which — it was a huge win, huge win for the people of Wisconsin, whether it’s fire, EMT, public libraries, you name it. Another one that doesn’t get much attention but we had the largest amount of money for affordable housing ever in the state of Wisconsin. Everybody talks about it, whether you’re a town of 50 or a town of 50 million. The issue of affordable housing is critical and we’ve got not enough money to solve it, but it was a real breakthrough operation.

Frederica Freyberg:

So what is the state surplus right now? Is it $7 billion?

Tony Evers:

$7 billion with a “b,” that’s right, and that’s why we should be utilizing some of these moneys to do things like bolster our childcare situation in Wisconsin. It’s a national thing, but we can take care of some of that here. That in and of itself is going to have a huge impact on our economy in the state if people have to leave the workforce in order to take care of their children. That’s a thing and it’s a big thing. So, yes, we have the resources to do some really extraordinarily important things.

Frederica Freyberg:

Since we last spoke, the state Supreme Court has thrown out the existing voting district maps. What is your expectation that new maps will be in place for this year’s elections?

Tony Evers:

We can get it done. I mean, the last time we went through this, where we ended up with the maps we have now, we had the same kind of shortage of timeline. We had to get things done. We had to get things into the courts. It’s the same thing. Legislature had their maps, I had mine. Nobody could agree. We had to go to the Supreme Court back then. And all that happened in the same timeline. We can get this done. Well, we have to get it done. And so I’m looking forward to having maps that are reflective of the purple type of state that we are and, frankly, we can have more competitive races. It’s good for voters and it’s going to be good for our state.

Frederica Freyberg:

The Republicans want to take it all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. What about that?

Tony Evers:

I think that’s a stretch. I mean, you hear that on a regular basis that something’s going to go to the Supreme Court, whether it’s this or something else. The last time we were there, the Supreme Court had some concerns about the Voting Rights Act and we — and that caused our maps to be thrown out, but so we are very cognizant of the Voting Rights Act. We’re not going to be violating it, and we can get this done. If it goes to the Supreme Court, last time they said we did our work, you do your work back in the state level. State is the place where this has to be resolved.

Frederica Freyberg:

And so you feel confident that there will be new maps that will be better for Democrats?

Tony Evers:

Better for, better for democracy. We are — I won this landslide race a few — a year ago with 3% of the population difference, voting population, so I feel confident that we are a bona fide purple state. The Legislature clearly doesn’t reflect that. So having more competitive races is good for democracy and good for the people of Wisconsin.

Frederica Freyberg:

The Wisconsin high court is also expected to have to consider the state abortion law after a lower court ruling. Coming into this election year, in your mind, how resonant does the issue of abortion remain with voters?

Tony Evers:

Right now, we are back to where we were before Roe was thrown out by the federal government, federal SCOTUS, so we are, we are where we were then. They want to take away people’s rights. Six to 12 weeks is taking away people — women’s ability to reproductive health and that is just not acceptable.

Frederica Freyberg:

Your administration filed a lawsuit over Republican legislators refusing to approve the pay raises before eventually kind of extracting restrictions on diversity, equity and inclusion at the Universities of Wisconsin. They got their salary increases after that. But now that the UW Board of Regents bent to these demands, is that lawsuit moot, or are there other arguments?

Tony Evers:

It is absolutely not moot. There’s all sorts of situations like that where decisions are made that are either not state law or are state law and — but that was a perfect example. We had a budget. We passed the budget. The budget was set. We had 4% or whatever the percent increase was. That should have been done instead of — how can you negotiate against what’s in state law? And that’s exactly what they did. In the same vein, the Republicans in the budget had issues around DEI to cramp down on that. I vetoed that. They couldn’t override that veto. Again, the idea that somehow they can bypass the executive branch on that is just unacceptable. I anticipate winning that race or winning that case in court and bring some sanity to what’s going on between the executive branch and the legislative branch.

Frederica Freyberg:

Speaking of which, in a recent interview that we conducted with Speaker Robin Vos, he said of you, “He is an absentee governor who’s very uninvolved in the process,” saying that you don’t meet with them and you simply sign things that they have worked on, noting shared revenue and the Brewers funding stadium package. What’s your response to that?

Tony Evers:

Typical. Typical. He understands, I believe, and if he doesn’t, not all of the executive branch, certainly not my job, is to just hang out in the Capitol waiting for him to come up with something that we can all talk about and be happy about. My job is to be visible to people all across the state of Wisconsin. I’m at the Capitol when I need to be at the Capitol, but other than that, I’m going to be on the road listening to people, talking to small business owners, talking to people in public schools, doing the good work of what the governor does. And if he doesn’t like it, frankly, I don’t care. We — I talked about shared revenue being a thing a long time before he did, and by God, we got it done. People in the local governments know where it started from and it started with me talking about it, not Robin Vos. In fact, I can’t remember the last time he did talk about it. He is what he is. I am who I am, and that’s the way it goes.

Frederica Freyberg:

Are you willing to compromise with Republican lawmakers over PFAS mitigation by way of limiting the DNR’s authority, which they seek?

Tony Evers:

Yeah, that’s a problem. I mean we have money in the budget. It was a bipartisan effort to get that into the budget. Now we have to figure out how to distribute that money. I am concerned that the present bill, which we haven’t seen yet, and so I’m reluctant to talk about it because who knows what it’s going to look like before it gets to my desk, but it does not give the authority to the Department of Natural Resources to get the work done. And that’s a problem. I think that the DNR plays a role in this, that’s their job, and that’s why we’ve actually asked the Joint Finance Committee to release the money and let the DNR do their work. This is important work and the more we mess around with it, the more problem we’re going to have. So I’m concerned that they’re using this as an opportunity to essentially not to have any accountability for who is accountable for this. Back in the days when other things happened in the state of Wisconsin, we held people accountable. There’s no interest in doing that. We have to have the Department of Resource — Natural Resources in the position to make sure that people are held accountable.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. Governor Tony Evers, thanks very much.

Tony Evers:

Good to see you again. Thanks.

Frederica Freyberg:

A public memorial service for former Wisconsin U.S. Senator Herb Kohl will be held in Milwaukee next Friday at noon at the Fiserv Forum. Kohl passed away on December 27th. Starting out as a business owner, Kohl served as Wisconsin’s Democratic senator from 1988 to 2013, self-funding his Senate races, his slogan was Nobody’s senator but yours. He was a strong advocate for children’s issues, aging and agriculture. President Joe Biden called him one of Wisconsin’s greatest ever advocates and a dear friend. Kohl was also a former owner of the Milwaukee Bucks, purchasing the team to keep them from leaving town and instrumental in building their home court at the Fiserv. Herb Kohl was 88.

In education news, the time is now to boost special education funding in Wisconsin. That’s according to Superintendent of Public Instruction Jill Underly, who in calling for an increase, cites the projected state budget surplus of more than $7 billion. Superintendent Underly joins us now. Thanks very much for being here.

Jill Underly:

Absolutely. Thank you.

Frederica Freyberg:

So you’re calling for an increase to the special education reimbursement rate to 60%, which would be about a billion dollars. Now, this was rejected by the Republican Legislature in the budget process. Why is it important for you to go around again on this now?

Jill Underly:

Because it’s important. We need to fund our public schools and special education reimbursement right now is so low that school districts have to transfer money from their general fund in order to pay for these services, which are required by law. So if we were to increase the reimbursement rate, they wouldn’t have to transfer as much money and we’re also serving kids and we’re able to then fund the other programs that schools desperately need to fund.

Frederica Freyberg:

This has been the case for so long.

Jill Underly:

Yeah, it has, and you see it. It’s having an impact. I mean, it’s been having an impact for decades. But when you look at the number of referendums that school districts have to go to, it’s because they need the funding. They’re not getting reimbursed. When you look at things they want to do, like raise teacher salaries or create music programs or art programs or including things, like, just general maintenance on their buildings, they’re looking for things to cut because they can’t fund their programs, and if we would reimburse special education at a higher rate, we can do that.

Frederica Freyberg:

This fall Wisconsin’s standardized tests in schools showed improvement over pandemic scores but still not recovered. Fewer than half of students statewide performed at or above proficient in math and language, and in Milwaukee, the numbers are lower, in the teens. What should these scores look like?

Jill Underly:

Yeah. So we want all kids to be successful. An assessment is one way to figure out where kids are and what kids need, but when we look at it, yeah, we’re not where we want to be, and so how do we approach that? Well, one of the things that we know is that poverty has a lot to do with how kids are going to test. And so that being said, assessment is just one piece of data, but if we could look at funding things like universal meals, mental health, making sure all kids feel safe and included in their schools, they’re going to learn better.

Frederica Freyberg:

One thing that stood out was the number of students absent from school. Again, in Milwaukee, 58% of students absent 10% of school days. What’s happening here?

Jill Underly:

Yeah, we do have a problem with chronic truancy and it’s certainly something that’s happening at a national level. Coming out of COVID, we noticed those rates increase, and again, it’s really looking at what are the underlying causes of this. Every situation is going to be a little different, every kid is a little different. Every situation for them is going to be not the same. So we need to look at what supports do they need in order to be engaged in school. Again, it’s not rocket science. Right? It’s looking to make sure that they are there, that they’re engaged, that they feel safe, they feel included, things like meals, things like connecting with staff members, making it seem that — making it so that kids feel safe and want to be in school is very important.

Frederica Freyberg:

Do we have special kind of efforts around this?

Jill Underly:

Yeah. DPI has been working on a cross-agency collaborative in order to address the issue. We have funded a program called the Graduation Alliance for school districts so that they can, without charge, access the information and supports and plans for kids who are struggling with chronic absenteeism.

Frederica Freyberg:

What’s the status on the shortage of teachers and teacher turnover?

Jill Underly:

Yeah. So that’s going to continue to be a problem. We know that, right now, it’s not so much that we don’t have people who don’t want to go into teaching; it’s people staying in teaching. So after five years, we only are retaining about two-thirds of those teachers and we have to, again, look at the underlying causes. A lot of it has to do with the politics that have been infused in education, looks at respect for teacher and the lack thereof for teachers. It’s also when you look at the pay for teachers and the fact that their skills are transferable to other industries and ultimately, we have to look at that work-life balance, because when we talk to teachers and they tell us why they’re leaving, it’s because it’s an impossible job.

Frederica Freyberg:

As a member of the UW Board of Regents, you were not able to be present for the vote that eventually resulted in DEI programs being cut in exchange for university salary increases and other funding. How would you have voted?

Jill Underly:

I would have voted against it, against cutting the DEI positions. My record has been very clear, again, on diversity, equity and inclusion as a fundamental tenet of public education and I am going to always fight to make sure that all our students have access.

Frederica Freyberg:

Finally, with the passing of former Wisconsin Senator Herb Kohl, you remembered him as a champion for public education and school kids. How so?

Jill Underly:

He was the best friend that public schools had in Wisconsin. He funded countless programs, when you think about scholarships for teachers and students and principals. There was — I remember a banquet where he always, when he was there, he would always go up to and congratulate every kid and every parent for their scholarships and he funded back-to-school wish lists for teachers. I mean, we owe so much in the state to Herb Kohl when it comes to public education.

Frederica Freyberg:

All right. We leave it there. Jill Underly, thanks very much.

Jill Underly:

Absolutely.

Frederica Freyberg:

As the national spotlight begins to shine on Wisconsin ahead of this year’s presidential election, the state political parties are beginning the work of organizing and energizing voters. Here & Now reporter Steven Potter spoke to both state party leaders about their plans to get out the vote and the impact of the Republican National Convention being held in Milwaukee this summer.

Ben Wikler:

Ever since Republicans rigged our maps for the state Legislature in 2011, the number of state legislative districts that are truly competitive has been microscopic, just a handful of seats. That means most voters even in blue and in red districts don’t really have a choice, and if we have new maps from the state Supreme Court, it’s possible that the number of competitive districts will explode. That could draw new people, new fresh blood into the political system, people running who hadn’t wanted to run in a totally rigged district, and it could mean I think for both parties that we are working in many more parts of the state to support a much wider array of candidates in a ton of contests that could be much closer. I think that’s a healthy thing for democracy.

Brian Schimming:

Well, what I hear as I move around the state is that people don’t want those districts changed. People look at redrawing district lines every ten years and we have to do it because of the census, but for the liberal Supreme Court to come back within a year and a half of when the old lines were set and say, you know what, we know you’re in this district or that district or whatever, we’re going to change that. In fact, you’re sitting Assembly or Senate person or congressman that is representing you, we may change that, too. That’s not a popular issue out around the state. I think that’s — if the Democrats are counting on that to help them, I think that is a very unpopular issue because people don’t want the lines moving around all the time.

Steven Potter:

In July, there will be the Republican National Convention in Milwaukee. What are your expectations going into that event?

Brian Schimming:

For us, it’s an opportunity to highlight to Republicans and media from across the country what Republican leadership has looked like here in Wisconsin, the difference between having a Republican governor and a Democrat governor, but also Joe Biden has to keep coming back to Wisconsin constantly. He’ll be here again soon because he’s in trouble in this state. Almost every set of polling numbers that you see out there show Joe Biden is in big trouble and upside down on any number of issues affecting the people of this state, and so neither party can take it for granted, but we’re going to go to the wall on everything.

Ben Wikler:

The Republican National Convention will make vividly clear what today’s Trumpified MAGA Republican Party stands for, and what we’ve seen over and over is that the more voters see from Donald Trump and the Trump-like MAGA candidates, the less they want anything to do with that extreme wing of the Republican Party. This is not the Republican Party of Tommy Thompson. This is a Republican Party that tried to overturn the 2020 elections, that put extreme Supreme Court justices on that ripped away Roe versus Wade, and has tried to criminalize abortion and now is talking about going after contraception, things like birth control pills and IUDs. Those are policies so out of step with what most Wisconsinites want that we think Republicans having a stage in our state will make vividly clear the contrast, the choice people have between a Biden-Harris administration that stands up for common sense and a MAGA GOP that is pushing way far out to the far, far right.

Steven Potter:

What are you hearing from voters about the most important issues in this election cycle?

Ben Wikler:

What we find is that over and over, whether people agree or disagree about this or that tax policy, these fundamental questions of whether we all have the freedom to live the kinds of lives that we want to lead, that is something that leads voters across the political spectrum to vote against MAGA Republicans and for Democrats. We saw that in the Supreme Court race this spring, we saw that in 2022. We’re going to see that again in 2024.

Brian Schimming:

Largely what I hear as we go around the state but also in the polling and the other survey work that you see, economy, number one. No doubt about it.

Steven Potter:

Also abortion has been a major issue here in the state. Is it also going to be a major issue in the presidential election?

Brian Schimming:

You know, I’m not afraid of that issue, I’m really not. I’m not sure we handled it as well as we could two years ago, but I think we will this time.

Frederica Freyberg:

In more education news, the world of machine learning exploded into everyday lives over the last year when generative artificial intelligence with advanced language models and chat functions became available to the masses. Here & Now student journalist Jane McCauley reports on how college educators and students are adapting to the new AI landscape.

Yonatan Mintz:

We use terms like artificial intelligence and it sounds kind of scary.

Jane McCauley:

Powerful servers like these process and analyze large amounts of data to produce artificial intelligence. In fact, we used AI to generate some of these images, but the concept of AI is not a new one.

TV announcer:

In the 21st century

Yonatan Mintz:

The image that I conjure up is like HAL9000 or like terminators. You know, crazy stuff like that.

Jane McCauley:

Machine learning dates back before the ’80s, but the release of AI programs that generate photos or text, like ChatGPT, have only been in public use since the end of 2022.

Yonatan Mintz:

We need to use the fact that…

Jane McCauley:

Yonatan Mintz, an engineering professor at UW-Madison focuses on the ethics of AI and ways people can learn to use it safely to solve problems.

Yonatan Mintz:

These are just very capable tools. They’re useful. They’re designed with a purpose. They’re designed by people. And they have limitations. It’s just kind of like the next step in helping us improve.

Jane McCauley:

But what are these programs and how do they work? Programs like ChatGPT are language-based models, meaning they excel at cleaning up grammar and articulating writing.

Yonatan Mintz:

I have students, for example, that speak English as a second language. I myself speak English as a second language. There are some things that don’t come naturally if you’re not a native speaker.

Jane McCauley:

And AI programs can rearrange writing to make it sound natural.

Yonatan Mintz:

GPT becomes super handy if you give it a prompt like, hey, can you edit this to make it sound more natural. Or can you edit this to make it sound more concise?

Jane McCauley:

Teachers differ on whether they encourage students to use AI in the classroom or avoid it completely. Professors like Nate Jung teach students to think critically about how to use AI programs.

Nate Jung:

I’m not trying to veer them towards not using it or veer them towards using it. I just want them to understand what it is and again, how they can make informed choices about its use in school and beyond school as well.

Jane McCauley:

During class, Jung invites his students to have open conversations about AI, including how to use it to brainstorm and narrow down writing ideas.

Nate Jung:

The college writing classroom is more important than ever, precisely because I think it’s one of the only places where students will be taught how to responsibly use that technology.

Jane McCauley:

But many students are hoping to tackle these questions themselves.

Ben Hayum:

A group of us were like, okay, we should get in this. This is a really big deal.

Jane McCauley:

UW-Madison senior Ben Hayum founded the Wisconsin AI Safety Initiative Club to get students thinking about broader questions when it comes to AI safety in society.

Ben Hayum:

What if we create a system of a student group that can help many students year after year into this kind of really important field, educate folks on it and kind of raise awareness for the problems there.

Jane McCauley:

The organization meets throughout the semester to discuss using AI to solve issues from climate change to global health. They also talk about the dangers of AI.

Ben Hayum:

One is obviously the whole risk of misinformation.

Jane McCauley:

Another is potential bias or even personal targeting.

Ben Hayum:

I’m going to target misinformation that particularly you are susceptible to given your preferences, your biases, all that kind of stuff.

Jane McCauley:

As the early stages of generative AI evolve, students like Hayum strive to learn how to safely integrate this new technology into people’s lives.

Ben Hayum:

Buckle up and like, be ready for this. Be aware of what’s happening.

Jane McCauley:

For “Here & Now,” I’m Jane McCauley.

Frederica Freyberg:

For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at PBSwisconsin.org and then click on the news tab. That’s our program for tonight. I’m Frederica Freyberg. Have a good weekend.

Announcer:

Funding for “Here & Now” is provided by the Focus Fund for Journalism and Friends of PBS Wisconsin.