This Old House

Kevin: Today on "This Old House"... situated about 15 miles west of New York City in Essex County, New Jersey... is this 1893 Dutch Colonial Revival.

It's in need of a renovation that honors its history.

And Zack Dettmore and his crew have been tasked with bringing it back to life.

Man: That got it!

Kevin: Ahh.

That's it.

Kevin: Hey there.

I'm Kevin O'Connor.

And welcome back to "This Old House" and to the very first episode of season 48.

That's right.

This marks 48 years on the air.

And we start the season back here in New Jersey, the Garden State, a place that I know well.

New Jersey was home to scientists like Einstein and Edison and to singers like Old Blue Eyes, Bruce, and Bon Jovi... and a builder who's getting some notoriety, our very own Zack Dettmore.

Zack and I are cruising to our next project.

Zack: So here we are.

Kevin: Alright.

Let's have a look and meet our homeowners.

Zack: Let's do it.

Kevin: Oh, here they come.

Alright.

Harley: Hello.

Hello.

Zack: Hey, guys.

Ethan: Hello.

Welcome.

Zack: Let me introduce you.

This is Ethan and Harley.

Kevin: Nice to meet you both.

Ethan: Great to meet you.

Harley: Lovely to meet you.

Thanks for coming.

Kevin: Yeah, we're happy to be here and back with Zack and meet you guys.

So can you tell us your story and the story of the house?

Harley: Well, we live in town.

We love living here.

We just need a little more space because we're expecting our second child.

Kevin: Congrats.

Both: Thank you.

Ethan: And, yeah, we adore the house.

It's got a lot of its original features still intact, which we love.

And it gives our family some room to grow.

And we're able to actually live in our current residence down the street while we renovate this home.

Kevin: Good for everybody.

Zack: I like that a lot.

Kevin: I bet.

Alright.

Well, looks sharp from the outside.

But also love to start with the tour of the inside.

Anyone want to volunteer?

Ethan: Come with me, Kevin.

Zack: Harley, let me show you something in the back.

Harley: Alright.

Kevin: I'm already digging the porch.

I like this.

Strong start.

Ethan: Come on in.

Kevin: Yeah.

Let's have a look around.

Ethan: Welcome.

Kevin: Yes.

Thank you.

Nice little entryway here.

Ethan: Welcome to the formal living room.

Kevin: Double pocket doors.

That's awesome.

Wow!

Ethan: That's what it was used for before.

We're keeping it as that.

Fell in love with the archway, the bay windows, fireplace.

This will be for our larger gatherings.

Kevin: Keep it as a formal living room.

Ethan: Yes, sir.

Kevin: Keep those details.

Back to the foyer area.

Just take a quick peek at your... I don't want to call it a "grand" staircase, but it's a pretty fine-looking staircase.

Ethan: It's pretty grand.

The banisters are amazing.

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

I like those details.

Over here?

Ethan: This was used as an office.

It will be a playroom.

Kevin: One kid and one on the way, so that's gonna get a lot of use.

Perfect.

Ethan: You got it.

Walking into the dining room.

Kevin: Another big grand room.

Ethan: Yes.

Kevin: The windows on this house.

10 over 1.

Oh, look at this.

Ethan: Yes.

Kevin: So was this you?

Did you bring with?

Ethan: We did not.

The homeowners were actually nice enough to leave it for us.

And I'm a woodworker, so just gonna polish it up, and we'll get some years of use out of it.

Kevin: Love to hear that.

Ethan: Fireplace.

Kevin: Back of the house.

Oh.

Someone has been busy.

Ethan: Yeah.

Kevin: Eager beaver.

Is this all you, demo?

Ethan: Yeah.

I got the blessing from the architect and let Zack know I was gonna be taking some walls down just to kind of discover what we were working with.

Kevin: Couldn't wait to see what's going on.

Ethan: So basically cabinetry, as you would imagine.

Island.

Breakfast nook.

Kevin: Will you guys push off like a lot of people do?

Or will you stay within?

Ethan: No, we're staying within.

This, uh, lends itself to just a nice bench.

Open this up a little bit.

Staying as is.

Kevin: Very nice.

Ethan: These steps will move over.

So this will actually be a 4-foot staircase going down.

Kevin: Okay.

Ethan: Into a room that we're still unearthing a bit.

Kevin: Unearthing?

Meaning trying to do some discovery?

Ethan: Yeah, so, uh, when I was tearing down the ceiling, I found this stained-glass piece here.

Kevin: This was up there?

Ethan: Yeah.

And there's actually another one here still buried above the ceiling in this that was presumably an entry into a porch.

Kevin: So maybe an original porch or a porch put on afterwards.

Ethan: You got it.

Maybe we can get that answer for you as we dig in.

How are you guys going to use it?

Ethan: Uh, this will be our family room.

So this will be the TV room.

This is where we gather.

This is probably our most used room.

Kevin: Knob and tubing.

Still wired to a receptacle.

Was this live when you guys bought it?

Ethan: Some was.

Some wasn't.

Some got real hot.

Kevin: I was impressed with the outside.

I'm super impressed with the inside.

I feel like you guys got a gem.

Is this what you were hoping for?

Ethan: No, no.

Kevin: [ Laughs ] What?

Ethan: We weren't looking for a renovation, but this house spoke to us.

The rooms just kind of showed us what they needed to be.

It was easy.

Kevin: Well, you're gonna get a renovation.

And I think that's a sign of a good house, that kind of still works the way it was thought out properly, originally 100-plus years ago.

Ethan: Exactly.

Yes, sir.

And how often are you gonna get an octagon for a living room?

Kevin: Good for you.

Ethan: Love it!

Richard: Well, Zack, I love these old buildings.

This is what, 1893?

Zack: Yeah.

Richard: It was an exciting time in central heating.

It was just coming inside the building.

Before then, they were using fireplaces.

And this house has got all the classic telltales.

So, utility-wise, we know we have got water coming in.

We've got gas coming in.

We know we have oil.

But we also originally had coal.

Here was the evidence of the coal bin right here.

And coal would have been shoveled in the window, dumped in.

You can see the evidence of a wall that used to be here.

And somebody had the terrible job of shoveling that coal over to what probably was a big furnace down in here.

But this was not a furnace as we know it.

There was no electricity, so this would have probably had no fan.

It would have been gravity, which means you had the coal burning all winter gently.

And hot air rises.

Would have come up through the floor registers.

And it was such a simple system...except... homeowners.

It was really hard work.

So then you said, I want the convenience of a thermostat and a furnace that went to oil.

And it became a steam system.

So, now, here's the steam supply system.

It's a pipe system with multiple radiators.

And if you look right up in here, you can see they actually ran the steam piping inside the original supply duct up to the second floor.

Zack: Ah, so that makes sense why I see a radiator sitting on top of a old supply duct.

Richard: They want it to be easy.

Zack: Yeah.

How convenient.

Richard: So, now, this actually is a modern system, back then, but it actually still delivers heat to this building.

Let me show you.

Well, not exactly a modern system, but those radiators filled with steam, and the water comes back here.

And you see they've got the steam boiler down here in the pit.

Now, do we have any cooling in the building?

Zack: Yeah, so, they have a large AC unit in the attic that's cooling just the attic and the second floor.

Richard: And that falls down to the first floor?

Was it comfortable in the summer?

Zack: I didn't notice it, but it was obviously warm enough that we want to add AC for the basement and first floor.

Richard: So this big boy right here provides all the heat for the three floors.

And the way a steam boiler works is pretty straightforward.

So there's an oil burner right here that fires into a chamber.

And then above it is a cast-iron boiler.

And that boiler is filled with water but not fully filled with water.

You can see there's a level line right here.

Just halfway in this boiler.

And the burner comes on, and the water gets heated up.

And this water, when it changes its state to 212, it turns to steam.

And now it expands 1,700 times its size, right?

So now it moves up through all this piping.

And when it comes on, all the air valves hiss on every radiator.

You know that sound.

Zack: I know it.

I have it in my house.

Richard: And it goes-- And now it comes up, and it fills every single radiator at the same time and then shuts off.

And now it just lets the radiators give off the heat, and then the cycle repeats.

Now, this boiler also has a thing called a tankless on the side, which says-- It has a little control on it to help make hot water.

But that means this boiler is also on 24/7, 365, trying to make a little hot water.

Zack: Oh, what a total waste of money.

Richard: Well, it is.

I think we can fix it, though.

If we modify this and get rid of the tankless and the control and just let the gas water heater do its thing to make hot water, we can let this boiler work more episodically just for the heating load alone, okay?

So, really, the question is, what do we do?

You know, most mechanical contractors, we come along, rip out the radiators, rip this all out.

What would they do?

Heat pump.

Feed the first floor.

Heat pump down feeding the second and third floor.

But that is-- I mean, it's a big-budget item.

Zack: No, it's pretty expensive.

It's at least $50,000 to $100,000.

Richard: Okay.

Zack: And we're not gutting this house.

And we're not necessarily insulating the whole house.

We're keeping some old windows.

Richard: Okay.

Zack: So a unit that puts out a lot of heat as affordably as possible is a pretty high priority for me.

Richard: I tell you, if we're gonna think about keeping the system in place for budget reasons, leaving it with oil is not a bad call because that oil burner is the hottest flame you can get.

It's so hot, it'll burn and turn that water into steam much more quickly.

So that's a plus.

And so I think leaving this, modifying it where we have to, moving radiators where we have to, but doing it smart... And then think about a standalone cooling system for this first floor.

Zack: Great.

Let's work on it.

Harley: And here we are at the second floor, Kevin.

I will take you into the primary bedroom, which is right off the landing.

Kevin: Okay.

Harley: So we really loved a lot of details about this room.

It goes from the front of the house to the back of the house.

Kevin: It's huge.

Got your own fireplace.

Harley: Yes, we do.

Yes, sir.

Kevin: Looks like you've given some thought to what goes where.

Harley: Yes, exactly.

So we're gonna put our bed there.

We've got a big chair that we're gonna put over there.

And this used to be a Jack and Jill bedroom, so adjoining bedrooms.

This is gonna be our primary en suite bathroom.

Kevin: Ethan's been busy in here, as well.

Harley: Oh, yes.

Taping everything off, as you can see.

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

Harley: Our vanity is going right there.

Getting some privacy glass here because the window looks out onto the street.

As you can see, water closet here, shower stall here.

And behind me is our walk-in closet, which is also the entrance into the bathroom.

Kevin: Clothes.

Bathroom.

And then do you keep the door to the hallway?

Harley: No, we are going to disable this door because this will be a linen closet that you can access from the hallway.

Kevin: Alright.

I like the taping stuff out to see where things go.

Harley: It's very helpful.

This will be our daughter's bedroom in there.

Kevin: Okay.

Harley: And this is one of the things we loved about the house.

I had these built-ins growing up in my house.

So we're gonna use them as storage, put whatever we need in there.

Sheets, towels, stuffed animals.

Kevin: Why not?

Those are awesome.

Yep.

Harley: Yep.

And we are gonna turn this bathroom into a laundry room with a washer/dryer.

And it's okay that the bathroom is going away because we have this bathroom for the kids.

It's pretty much staying the same.

We're just doing some light cosmetic upgrades.

Kevin: You keeping the claw foot?

Harley: You know it.

Kevin: They're gonna have a splashy good time in that big tub.

Harley: And this is the second bedroom.

This will be for our new baby.

Kevin: Which is coming how soon?

Harley: In about three months.

Kevin: Oh.

We better tell Zack he's got to get going.

Alright.

And an attic?

Harley: Mm-hmm.

Let's go.

As you can see, Kevin, this third floor is typical of houses constructed during this time.

We've got two bedrooms on either side.

Kevin: And a little bit of unfinished mechanical space behind me.

And what will you do to it?

Harley: That's right.

So we are going to put a bathroom in here.

There are two closets behind this wall.

We're gonna knock them down and put in a full bath.

Kevin: So you have sort of a guest third floor if you wanted to.

Harley: Absolutely.

Yep.

Kevin: Okay.

Well, I'm as taken with the second and third floors as I was with the first.

Harley: Right?

Kevin: I think you've got a gem.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Ethan.

Is this what you wanted?

Harley: Absolutely not.

No.

[ Laughs ] Kevin: So you guys are in sync with that, then.

What happened?

Harley: Absolutely.

So, I had driven by this house countless times.

And then for some reason, when the "For Sale" sign was outside, I was like, "You know what?

Let's take a look inside."

And then we just had that feeling the second we walked in.

Kevin: Yeah, well, old houses can do that to you, so... Harley: They sure do.

Kevin: Thank you for the tour.

Harley: You're welcome.

Kevin: Not far from this house are two other projects we followed with Zack.

We decided to take a ride and see how they look today.

Let's do it.

Which one you want to go to first?

Zack: Uh, let's do the Glen Ridge one.

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

There it is.

Zack: So basically, you know, we did that addition on the side, and the whole point of that renovation was multi-generational living.

Kevin: So what have you heard?

Zack: I think they're loving it.

In general, it's been a very low-maintenance house.

I think the only thing that really surprised them was it was a little bit more expensive to run this house than they thought from a utilities standpoint, because the utility cost for electricity specifically has gone up between 20% and 25% since we wrapped up the renovation.

Kevin: I mean, we hear this a lot up in New England, as well.

Utility rates go up, and people with heat pumps are feeling the pinch.

Zack: I think so.

I think the lesson is to understand the load and maybe have more conversations up front about what the impact of the overall utility cost is.

Kevin: Alright.

So every house has got a lesson to teach us...or several, right?

Zack: Yeah.

Definitely.

Let's head to the next one.

Kevin: Sounds good.

So we are off to Ridgewood.

Oh, and there she is in all of its glory.

Look at that.

Zack: Yeah.

Looks good.

Kevin: General sentiment from the homeowners?

What have you heard?

Zack: I think they love it.

You know, it's comfortable.

It's cheap to run.

It's efficient.

But I would say the major thing that we've changed the way we approach jobs since doing this one is zoning the addition.

So basically we put that box on the back of the house, and that not only has insulation in the walls, but it has that continuous insulation on the outside.

And wherever there was a thermostat in there, it basically turns off in that room, hardly changes temperature, but the original house is losing energy very quickly in the winter, which means it might be 70 degrees in the addition but 68 or 64 in the main house.

And I just wish we did a better job of zoning that because we have had to come back and commission the system a couple times to get that comfort balanced.

Kevin: Alright.

Let's get back to the new project and meet Jenn.

Jenn!

Jenn: Kevin!

Kevin: I'm liking what I see on the inside.

Have you had a chance to take a look around out here?

Jenn: Yes, I have.

I'm loving this front porch.

It's a fantastic place to chill and hang out.

Kevin: Going to be a lot of summer nights spent right there on that corner.

Jenn: I know.

And check out this bluestone.

Kevin: You like?

Jenn: Yeah, these nice wide pieces.

So, I don't think a lot needs to be focused on in the front.

I think the back is the opportunity.

Kevin: Alright.

Well, let's see what we're working with.

Jenn: Alright.

So I had the opportunity to talk to Ethan and Harley, the homeowners.

And we talked about wants versus needs.

Kevin: Always a list.

Jenn: Always a list.

So, this is a need.

This deck.

It's rotting.

It's falling down.

It's gonna be the main entry point from the backyard.

Kevin: So they want a deck, just not this one?

Jenn: They need a deck.

Kevin: Sorry.

They need a deck.

Jenn: Yeah.

Kevin: So this one gets rebuilt.

Jenn: Correct.

And then over here, we have the garage.

Now, if I was designing this, I would probably move it to the left side of the property.

It would be amazing to get rid of some of this asphalt, turn it into green space.

Kevin: Come off the deck into a yard.

Jenn: Yeah, yeah, but it's not necessary because this is structurally sound inside.

And I think it would just require a facelift, you know, clean up the exterior.

Kevin: Could spend a lot of money moving it, so just leave it where it is.

Jenn: Yes.

For now.

Kevin: Decent pergola.

Jenn: Yeah.

Not bad.

Nice little place to sit under.

But, you know, we could address that in the design phase.

But check this out.

Kevin: This is crazy!

Like, look at all this space!

Jenn: It's huge!

Kevin: How much acreage do they have?

Jenn: It's about an acre.

Kevin: Wow!

But it's long and narrow, so it's almost like two separate spaces.

Jenn: Exactly.

And then-- Okay, so, over off the garage, we have a garden shed.

Kevin: That's a keeper?

Jenn: That's a keeper.

Just needs to be refaced on the outside.

And, so, some of the things on their wish list are they want a chicken coop.

They'd like to plant berries and fruiting trees and make it more of a natural space and also have a nice open lawn to play soccer.

Kevin: So wish list is on the want list.

Jenn: Yes.

Kevin: But will they get it?

Can you make that happen, do you think?

Jenn: I think we can make part of it happen.

I think what they want to do is focus on the house, see what their budget is, you know, midway through the project, and see what they can put into the landscape.

Kevin: And start where?

Jenn: I think we have to start with the need, and that is the deck.

Kevin: I think you're gonna be busy either way.

Jenn: I think you're right.

Zack: So, Kevin, when we're renovating these old houses, we never really know how to do it until we're done.

But before we make the bid, it's nice to sort of take in the existing conditions.

And one thing I notice here is this room looks relatively unrenovated over the life of this house.

Kevin: And you can tell that because... trim hasn't been painted over yet.

Probably plaster pulling off of the first layer of lath.

Zack: Exactly.

Kevin: Windows, obviously, right?

So, single pane.

Waves.

Look at the size of them.

With the pockets and the weights and stuff.

Zack: Right.

You got the baseboard is sort of proud of the wall, which means they didn't add a layer of gypsum here.

Kevin: Not an outlet every 24, 36 inches.

Zack: Exactly.

And then all of a sudden, we transition to this kitchen, and the first thing we see is this massive step coming in.

And what does that tell you?

Kevin: That somebody put a floor on top of a floor and maybe even another floor on top of that.

Zack: Exactly.

And where this old vent pipe came up through, we see it.

We see subfloor and then three floors put on top of that, which sort of speaks to the laziness we're about to uncover.

Kevin: You can hear the quote from a previous person.

"It's gonna cost me X more if I pull the whole thing up, so let's just go right over it."

Right?

Then next thing you know, someone chooses to do that, and then they also choose to build a wall inbound of what was probably the original wall.

"I don't want to deal with this.

Just make it straight.

Cut it off and go."

Zack: Right.

Cheaper.

Less demolition.

And we come over here.

Look.

You've got insulation of different types.

We've got the original plaster.

And then we've got paneling on top of that.

Kevin: It's kind of interesting because, in the dining room, you say to yourself original.

You can see through those walls.

You've renovated enough original walls to kind of know what's in there.

Six or seven layers?

You don't really know what to expect And you get wonky things like this.

Zack: Yeah, in general, 130 years ago, the craftsmanship was pretty good, but now we get craftsmanship like this where-- Look.

I can move that whole structural header back and forth just because they didn't want to bring this over to the king stud and move these wires out of the way.

And so now that's really not secure or safe.

Kevin: I don't see a drop ceiling, but I have to assume they brought it down at some point.

Zack: Yeah.

If you look over here.

Kevin: Oh, yeah.

There it is.

Zack: We've got plaster with gypsum board and then another layer of plaster, so double the demo on the ceiling, as well.

Kevin: Right.

And so when you're walking-- You probably hear this a lot, right?

You're walking through the house with the homeowners on that quote day.

And the first thing they say is, "Oh, well, this room's been renovated not that long ago, so it shouldn't be as expensive."

And the reality is it's just the opposite.

Zack: It is, yeah.

I mean, certain renovations, you see them, and you know they're so high-quality and that things were done correctly, but, in general, we uncover sins like this, and we need to peel back all the layers to make sure there's no pipes or electrical issues that could cause a fire or a leak.

Kevin: So when you give a quote to Ethan and Harley, you've got to tell them what it costs to renovate this space and what it costs to undo the sins of all the previous folks who took shortcuts.

Zack: Exactly.

Kevin: And if for no other reason, it's gonna be way more expensive because you got three layers of ceiling that are going to the dumpster, not one.

-[ Reverse signal beeping ] -Zack: Exactly.

Oh, speaking of the dumpster, it's time.

Scotty's here.

Kevin: Scotty being your dumpster guy?

Zack: Oh, yeah.

Here he comes.

Kevin: First-name basis with your dumpster guy?

Zack: Oh, yeah.

And we gotta show him where we want it here.

Kevin: Okay.

Zack: I think I'm gonna get it in here.

Kevin: This is part of the process, right?

Zack: And then we can run a plank off the deck and just dump everything straight in.

Kevin: Key part of the job, I guess.

You got to get that dumpster going.

[ Whirring ] Kevin: So now he does the tilt and slide?

Zack: Yeah.

So there's two controls.

One controls the tilt, or the hoist, and one controls the winch, which lowers it off.

Scotty, this is Kevin.

Scotty: How you doing, Kevin?

Kevin: Hey, Scotty.

Nice to meet you.

I don't want to-- Keep doing what you're doing.

I'm just gonna ask you a couple questions while you're doing it.

Scotty: Sure.

No problem.

Kevin: So, first of all, nice job of threading it in there like that.

Scotty: Thank you.

Kevin: Appreciate it.

Like, what's the process from here?

Scotty: Uh, basically just remove the pair.

Pair's attached to the cable.

Kevin: Yeah.

Scotty: The pair is around the hook.

Take that off.

Secure the cable and the pair on the truck for transport.

You don't want it coming off or getting loose or anything like that.

And then just maneuver their way out.

Kevin: And is that the only way that you're securing the box to your trailer?

Scotty: No, there's another way, too.

That will hold it all the way at the top.

In those two hooks there from the front.

And then on the back, there are rail hooks back here.

Once the dumpster is on the hoist, these hooks go around the rail in the back, which secure it to the rear of the truck.

There's two in the back.

Kevin: Right.

Gotcha.

On average, how many of these are you hauling a day, dropping off or picking up?

Scotty: Anywhere between four to eight, depending on distance and where you're going, where you have to dump, what the load is.

Kevin: A day?

Scotty: Oh, yeah.

Kevin: What's it like working with this guy?

'Cause he's talking about you like you guys have been working-- Look.

A smile.

Scotty: He's awesome.

Honestly, I've been doing this for over 20 years now.

Same company.

And I've known Zack probably almost 20 of those.

Kevin: So he pays his bills.

Scotty: Totally.

Kevin: Good deal.

Alright.

I'll get out of your way.

But thank you, Scotty.

Scotty: Sure.

No problem.

Kevin: Appreciate it.

Well, here they are.

Richard: How are you?

Kevin: Alright.

So we've all had a little bit of chance to take it in.

Jenn, your thoughts on the project?

Jenn: I mean, we have a lot of space to work with.

We'll see what we come up with.

I'm excited.

Richard: And this is another magnificent house here.

I'm starting to fall in love with your neighborhood, Mr.

Dettmore.

I like Jersey.

Kevin: We got a Jersey boy.

Richard: That's right.

Zack: He likes when they need work.

Kevin: So, Zack, your dumpster's here, which means demo can start.

And you got a lot of it, at least in the kitchen.

Anything else you can promise us?

Zack: Well, we'll start prepping the job for construction, set up the job-site command center, and, uh, get working on it.

Kevin: And we're off to the races.

Okay, well, we're back in Jersey.

We got a great new project for us, and we've got a lot more coming up.

So until next time, I'm Kevin O'Connor... Richard: I'm Rich Trethewey.

Jenn: I'm Jenn Nawada.

Zack: And I'm Zack Dettmore.

Kevin: For "This Old House" back in Jersey.

Kevin: Next time on "This Old House"... Zack: It's demo day, and believe it or not, there's a bit of a method to the madness.

I'll explain.

Heath: Then, have you ever seen a basement ceiling look quite like this?

I'm teaming up with our local electrician, Matt, to help him clean up some of the old knob-and-tube and get rid of some of these junction boxes.

Kevin: And I'm in Newark to see how our framing lumber is stacked into bundles so that when it arrives at the job site it's in the order that it's gonna be used.

That's next time.