This Old House

Kevin: Today on "This Old House"... Zack: It's demo day, and believe it or not, there's a bit of a method to the madness.

Heath: Then I'm teaming up with local electrician Matt to help him clean up some of the old knob-and-tube, BX, and get rid of some of these junction boxes.

Kevin: And I'm in Newark to see how our framing lumber is stacked into bundles so that when it arrives at the job site, it's in the order that it's going to be used.

[ Grunting ] [ Chatter ] Kevin: Ah.

That's it.

Kevin: Hey, there, and welcome back to our project here in Essex County, New Jersey, our first project of season 48.

Last time we were here, we introduced you to our new homeowners, Harley and Ethan, who live here in town, but they recently bought this place.

It's an 1893 Dutch Colonial Revival, and they picked it up because they needed some extra space for their growing family.

Hey.

Zack.

Good to see you again.

Zack: Hey, Kevin.

Welcome.

Kevin: Thank you very much.

So, permit in hand, I hear?

Zack: Yep, we got the permit, so now we're ready to get into real construction.

Kevin: Looks like you've already gotten started, though, right?

Floors are up.

Zack: Yeah, we got floors up.

Made a little progress while we were waiting to get things ready, and now we're going to build our sort of job-site command center.

Kevin: Command center.

Alright.

What and why?

Zack: It's basically just going to be a spot for safety, you know, legally required information, and also our plans and design elements so if anyone has a question on the job site, there's one spot where they can get their answer.

Kevin: And is this something that you do for each job?

Zack: Well, yeah, pretty much.

We do it a little different on every job, but, um, this will be pretty fast and easy.

Kevin: Alright.

Well, I'll give you a hand if you tell me what to do.

Zack: So speed is more precious than accuracy here, Kevin.

[ Whirring ] Put those wheels on the end of each of those.

Use these drywall screws.

I'll make the frame.

We're gonna lift this up, and we'll set it right like that.

We'll have to screw from the bottom up into this.

Alright.

Let's throw this out of the way.

Let's load it up.

Kevin: Alright.

Zack: This is basically where we're going to keep all the safety data sheets... so everyone knows exactly what's safe and not safe to use and how to handle it properly.

No surprise.

We need to wash our eyes occasionally, so screw that on there.

Gotta have one of these on every single floor, so that can go right there.

Alright, so a lot of people, like me, never worked in an office their whole life.

So I want people to know on the job site what their rights are.

Kevin: This is a lot of information.

Zack: It is.

At least something to look at during lunch.

You know?

Got one over here.

Alright.

Let's spin it around, Kevin, so we can get the plans on the back side of it.

And that'll be where our construction plans go.

Alright, last thing is the project schedule so everyone knows what we're trending towards, so we'll just screw this up for now.

Kevin: Alright, so safety on one side, information on the other side.

There is a little wrinkle in your plans, ah?

But that's alright.

We're ready to go.

Zack: Just a little wrinkle in time.

Well, according to the schedule, it's demo day.

Let's get to work.

What's up, Ethan?

Ethan: Hey!

Kevin: Ethan, good to see you.

Ethan: Kevin.

Good to see you.

Kevin: Yeah, we are here to help you.

You got started on the demo.

Ethan: I have.

Kevin: But I guess we're doing some more.

Zack: Yeah, so in general, whenever I start a project, it's a little overwhelming, all the old infrastructure.

It can kind of take away your focus.

So what I want to do is delete anything that's not essential in here today so we have a clear idea of what stays, what goes, what we need to fix.

Kevin: Alright.

I want to get into the list of non-essential.

But you've done some prep work.

So what's your methodology for setting up for demo?

Zack: Yeah, we started removing the floor.

There's some holes here.

I don't want to have to, you know, pick dust out of the basement, so I just threw a tarp down.

We've also got an air scrubber.

So basically all the dust is going to want to gravitate towards this piece of equipment instead of, like, lingering and floating through the house.

Let's put Ethan on the ceiling.

You get down the boards.

You're the tallest.

Kevin, you're on removing studs and pipes.

And I'll take a hit for the team.

I'll clean up all your trash and take it out to the dumpster.

Kevin: Alright.

Zack: Let's PPE up.

Alright, Kevin, I'll have you cut these nice and quickly, and then you'll be able to easily pull the bottom and the top out.

It'll be a lot easier than having to cut through the nails.

Alright, guys.

Looks good.

No surprises here.

Kevin: Yeah.

Zack: That was nice work.

One more thing I want to try and get out today.

Alright, so, Ethan, you found this window that came from there.

And when we peeled back this wall, uncovered another one.

So you want to save that, right?

Ethan: Yeah.

Harley and I would love to repurpose both of these if we can, but we have ideas for at least one.

Zack: Alright.

So let's try and dig it out before the demo crew comes in here.

We'll do a little, you know, surgical demo.

I'm trying to split this piece of wood to make room for this sash to just slide right out.

Kevin: I got a chisel for you, Zack.

Zack: Yeah, that might be helpful.

This is a little blunt.

I think that's just the tool for the job here.

Kevin: You can beat it up pretty bad.

I got a crotchety old carpenter that likes to sharpen them for me.

Zack: Oh, good!

Oh, yeah.

That's working much better.

Getting there.

Okay.

Alright.

Alright.

It's free.

Ethan: Nicely done, Zack.

Kevin: There you go.

Zack: So this is what's called a cartouche sash.

That center oval.

People put house numbers on it or a family crest.

Ethan: Thanks, Zack.

Zack: Ah, no problem.

It looks cool.

Kevin: And, uh, on the back side.

Zack: That's cool.

They got a little reinforcement there to keep it from bowing.

I guess not enough, but, hey.

This one looks like it's in better condition than that one.

Kevin: Flip it around.

Let's see.

Zack: Oh.

Yeah.

I guess it looks pretty good there, too.

Kevin: Yeah, you'll be able to make something out of that.

Zack: I like it.

Ethan: Well done.

Zack: Cool.

Kevin: Alright.

Let's get these somewhere safe.

Zack: Yeah, put them in the dumpster.

I mean, in my truck.

Heath: Today I'm here in New Jersey to meet up with Matt, Zack's electrician, to give him a hand getting rid of some of the old wiring in the house.

And as you can see, since this wall has been opened up, we can see some of the wire that's here.

In this case, we can see the original knob-and-tube that was probably utilized within the past year.

And the components of this are pretty simple.

The stand-off porcelain knobs that keep the wires off of the framing.

And then we have the tubes that actually let the conductors pass through the frame, like you can see here.

So the conductor would go right through that.

And then our conductors.

One's a hot and one's a neutral.

And even if the wall wasn't open, you can usually tell you have some older wiring by a two-prong receptacle... and like the push-button switches that we see we have at the front door.

So with that, I'm going to head down to the basement and meet up with Matt and get started.

Hey, Matt.

Matt: Hey, Heath.

How are you?

Heath: Nice to finally meet you.

Zack speaks highly of you.

Matt: Oh.

Thank you.

Heath: Coming down the stairs, I saw some of the old wiring in the house.

Found some knob-and-tube in that room that was opened up.

What else are you finding down here?

Matt: Yeah.

So it's pretty interesting.

Down here, we actually have, like, all the phases of wiring.

We have the knob-and-tube.

Heath: Mm-hmm.

Matt: And then we also have the BX.

The BX cable is armored clad metal cable that has two conductors with no equipment ground.

And then, lastly, here we have the NM cable, or non-metallic, sheath cable.

Basically the newest form of wiring we're doing here in a residential setting.

Heath: The knob-and-tube, we originally had from, what, the 1890s through 1930s, give or take?

Matt: Yes.

Heath: So that kind of tells us the age of the house is 1800, late 1800s, early 1900s.

Matt: Right.

Heath: And then BX came after that until about the '40s, '50s, and then we started changing over to our NM's.

Matt: Right.

One thing about the knob-and-tube, there's no equipment ground.

And we basically have single conductors that are insulated just running through the framing and the bays of the walls and in the ceiling, as well.

Um, so if anything was to damage this, you know, we might not be able to trip the circuit breaker.

Heath: Yeah, now, when it was first put in, this was the greatest thing ever.

They were separated.

There was no issue.

But when they came together at a box, that's when we could start to have some potentials.

Or, if we had a fault, we have no grounding conductor.

So if something happens and the current has to go somewhere, it doesn't have a grounding conductor to go back on, it's going to go somewhere else and possibly cause a fire, which is exactly what we don't want to have happen.

Matt: Right.

Heath: The other thing is, too, this has a life cycle.

You know, at some point, this does get brittle, especially where there are light fixtures where it would heat up.

I don't know about you, but we've taken some of these down.

You've seen insulation just almost crumble in your hand.

Matt: It does.

We can see right here where this was spliced into the knob-and-tube with this metal jacket.

If you move these around, they just crack so easily.

Heath: Yeah.

Matt: And exposes the conductors.

And then you can see how they transition from the knob-and-tube to the BX cable.

Heath: Yeah.

Isn't that crazy?

So you can see that transition when we go from the knob-and-tube to the BX, and it ties into junction boxes.

So the hard thing is you may not always know if you have knob-and-tube in a home.

You may see this BX cable, but up in a ceiling or in a wall, you may have this fitting that actually changes back over to knob-and-tube, so you really do have to do your research and explore to see if you have knob-and-tube in the home.

It's not just what you can see in the basement.

Matt: Yeah, so we can absolutely remove all the knob-and-tube.

Ideally, we remove the BX with no equipment ground.

Heath: Yeah, given an option, I always prefer to remove this if possible, you know, and try and get some of the newer conductors.

But I understand it's not always within everyone's budget.

And the home may not be open and accessible to have that done easily.

Matt: Sure.

Heath: So you do the best you can and make everything as safe as possible.

But I think there's a fair amount we can get rid of down here.

So just double-checking.

We know everything's been turned off.

We've also checked it with a multimeter.

So now we can go ahead and start removing some of this.

Matt: Perfect.

Heath: Matt, I know we find a fair amount of this BX up by us.

How often do you see it down here?

Matt: All the time.

We are -- We're always running into the BX.

Looks like they have it secured here to this copper pipe with some tie wraps.

Definitely not an approved strapping method.

The wiring is going to be going up to the first floor.

We'll just coil it where it goes up, and then we'll find out whether or not the homeowner would like to replace it.

Heath: Yeah, that's a good call.

You may have to reuse some of this at some point.

Alright, Matt, so now that you've got that room in pretty good shape, we saw one other thing when we came down that we need to address.

It's kind of interesting.

But look at that.

Matt: Old fuse panel.

Heath: A little fuse panel stuck up on the ceiling.

And there's nothing wrong with a fuse.

A fuse can react quickly and do a good job.

But, I mean, I think this is time for this thing to go.

Matt: Yeah, I'm not sure the insurance company would like to see this still here.

Zack: So, here in the primary bathroom on the second floor, this room has been absorbing most of my time in the planning of this project because this tile is probably the most complex part of this whole job.

Kevin: Of the entire project?

Zack: Yeah, because this is the most complicated thing, figuring out the tile.

And so this is what they're going for.

And you'll notice this is a sort of vintage-looking tile that is appropriate to this house.

Kevin: Yeah, classic black-and-white subway design.

Plumbing's just coming into the house when this one was built.

And this is what everyone's going with.

Matt: Right.

And this is sort of lining up with when people were adopting the germ theory and they were really worried about keeping their bathrooms clean.

And that's why you sort of see these radiused inside and outside corners.

And it's actually called sanitary base.

Kevin: So, as you say -- So this is an outside radius.

This is an inside radius.

Same thing here.

And that's where you see it show up?

Zack: Exactly.

Kevin: What's the thought there?

Easier to clean?

Zack: Yeah.

No hard inside corner.

No dirt build-up.

A lot easier to keep clean.

And this is also sort of indicative of the time, the pride people took in their work.

So the tile setters and the masons at the time, they thought of their work as sort of an architectural element instead of just a covering, the way we think of tile.

You'll notice we have full tiles and half tiles.

Every tile, we're trying to avoid cuts, and that's what we're trying to do in here.

But it's quite difficult.

If you have cut tiles, you can pretty much just order the same tile, maybe two or three tiles for a whole bathroom and cut them.

In this case, we are actually ordering individual outside and inside corners for the cap and the pencil in the baseboard.

So all of those pieces add up to about 30 to 35 different-shaped tiles in this one bathroom.

And we got to get all those quantities right because the tile is really expensive.

Kevin: And are you going for the "don't cut" effect, as well?

Zack: So we're going to go for no cuts, and it's going to be a "shoot for the stars" type thing, right?

But if we fall, we'll land on a cloud.

We'll hide the cuts if we have to.

So, back in the day, they would, you know -- The tile setters would build the wall out with mud to try and avoid cuts.

We're probably going to do it with wood.

But, um, yeah, we're gonna try.

Kevin: So you're going to have to measure real tight, and you're gonna have to make a real good list and a real good order.

Zack: Yeah, so we're basically making elevations of all the wall, counting up the tiles so we have what we need, but we're not quite there yet.

So now it's time to do our takeoff for lumber.

That's first.

Kevin: This is gonna be good.

Zack: Yeah.

Kevin: I'm gonna see how you land on this one.

Zack: So in this room, Kevin, we're gonna rip the roof off.

We're gonna put new rafters and sheathing, and then we have some structural items here.

So this is sort of ground zero for where we're consuming lumber.

Kevin: Okay.

And so how are we getting this list?

Zack: Well, I mean, the way I used to do it is pretty basic.

You know, there's some rules of thumb.

The first thing is to not chase perfection when you're estimating lumber.

You're feeding a framing crew.

You're not trying to get it just right because there's always waste.

Slightly less on new construction, but in remodeling, there's a lot of waste.

So just try and have enough lumber to keep people working.

Kevin: Okay.

Zack: But I like to use a digital tape because it's quick, so I can come over here and just take the area of the room.

But when you've got a whole house sort of going around and you're calculating that way, there can be some errors, so let me show you another way I do it now.

Kevin: Architectural drawings.

Zack: Yeah.

So the architect has already done detailed measurements, so I can just pop this in my take-off software.

We've highlighted the area, so we know the square footage of the floor.

And I can do this in a fraction of the time, and it's much more accurate.

Kevin: And I presume that gives you -- You pick.

Linear feet, square feet, whatever you want.

Zack: Everything.

You can do super detailed take-offs, and that's much quicker, and it's nice and organized.

Kevin: So you've got your rules of thumb.

You have to put it on a list?

Zack: Yeah.

So I have sort of the greatest hits, my most consumed items, on two pages.

All I do is check the box for the things I want, add the quantity.

Kevin: And literally just check a box like, "I need it."

If you don't, leave it empty.

And if you do, quantity.

Zack: Exactly.

And then there's just this text here is basically read by artificial intelligence.

So all I have to do is take a picture of this list, and it will delete all of the non-essential items that I haven't checked and put it into an email form for my sales representative so I can place the order.

Kevin: No, it can't.

[ Laughs ] Zack: Yeah.

Give it a shot.

It's surprisingly accurate.

Kevin: I've got free artificial intelligence thing here.

I choose camera.

You're saying just a picture.

Zack: Just a picture and press enter.

You don't need to enter any... Kevin: I don't even need to tell it what to do?

Zack: No.

Just hit enter.

Kevin: "Here's an extraction of the checked items only."

Sheet goods.

Look at that.

T&G 3/4-inch.

34 sheets.

17 tubes of adhesive.

Holy mackerel!

Zack: Yeah, it's just reading what we already wrote, but it's in a nice format that no matter how sloppy my handwriting is, as long as I can check that that is correct, it's easy for the lumber yard to know what we have, and everyone in the office who's taking that information from the people in the field can make sure it's correct, and then they'll send us this, which is what we're receiving today, our lumber package.

And there's one more efficiency that they help us with.

And that's basically we don't want to pay our framing contractor or our team to be restacking lumber, because there's a sequence to which we need things.

Like, first, we're going to need 2x4's to sort of temporarily support the structure while we get our new structural elements in.

Then we're going to have to take our rafters and put them up.

Then we're going to have to put the sheathing on top of the rafters.

So they're going to actually stack those cubes of lumber in a way that we're going to just be always pulling from the top.

Kevin: So they do that for you based on knowing -- They know your building process?

Zack: Exactly.

So that it's as easy for us as possible.

Kevin: Alright.

I'm going.

I got to see this.

Zack: It's pretty cool.

Kevin: This distribution facility is about 30 minutes from our project house here in downtown Newark, and it supplies both commercial and residential building materials, as well as all of the lumber that Zack's going to be using on our project.

So, big place you got here.

This thing is massive.

Jose: Very big.

Very big.

It's about 10 acres total.

One of our biggest locations out of our nine.

Kevin: And it's all filled with building materials?

Jose: It's all framing lumber, engineered lumber, commercial supplies, yes, everything.

Kevin: So, Zack tells me that you guys not only have the list, but then you think about how it actually gets stacked, put on the truck, so that he's got to do as little work as possible?

Jose: Correct.

Correct.

Kevin: Tell me about that process.

Jose: So, we have the order here that was placed by Zack.

We communicate with our operations team, our delivery team.

They'll go around, they'll pick the product, build their piles according to how either the customers ask for it or just from our experience.

We'll have pressure-treated.

They usually go down as your plates, and we'll put that on the top of a unit that's going to get used later on so you could get to the product that you're trying to use.

It'll all get banded.

They have products on the side of their forklift that they use to band the skids together.

They'll label the project so that we know what skids go to what truck.

They stage the product.

It gets checked.

Make sure that the quantities are correct, make sure that the product is correct.

We want the right product at the job.

Kevin: Yeah.

Jose: And then that truck will get loaded.

They'll strap it, secure it, and be ready to go.

Kevin: So is this stuff, uh, on a truck going to our spot yet?

Jose: So this truck is pulled and checked, ready to go, and you'll see it on site soon.

Kevin: Awesome.

I'm going to go check that out.

Jose, thank you for everything you've done.

Jose: Thank you.

Kevin: Appreciate it.

Jose: You're welcome.

Kevin: Look at all of that beautiful lumber.

Zack: [ Chuckles ] Kevin: Well, you weren't kidding, Zack.

They've got quite the operation down there.

And how do you feel about that load coming in?

Zack: That's perfect.

He's got it stacked up just the way we want it, so our framers can work effectively.

Kevin: Alright.

So you're able to get to work.

So, what have we got coming up next time?

Zack: I think we'll wrap up demo this week, and then we'll get that roof torn off on the back.

And the framers will be halfway framing by the time you get back.

Kevin: Perfect.

Alright.

Well, we will be coming back.

So all that's coming up next time.

And until then, I'm Kevin O'Connor.

Zack: And I'm Zack Dettmore.

Kevin: For "This Old House" back in Jersey.

Alright.

Let's see where this guy drops it.

Kevin: Next time on "This Old House"... Zack: Here in the framing stage, we're doing the perfect tile layout.

And to get it just right, we're using something called a story pole.

Kevin: Then... For so many homeowners, it is hard for them to visualize an architect's plans on paper, but here they come to life.

Man: 16 projectors allow us to put our drawings into full scale.

Richard: And we'll show you how to install a wall-hung toilet.